Solve : Boat anchor?

1.	Solve : Boat anchor?
Answer» I know you're going to tell me my hard drive just DIED of old age, but I'm hoping for a miracle that will let me get it up and running long enough to get the data off it onto flash drives. Why flash drives? Because my #& HP CD burner I've been using faithfully for years copied folder names onto my many backup CDs, but very few of them actually contain files. I hate HP. Here's what I have: a 1998 desktop assembled locally at a geek shop, running Win98SE. It has a CD reader, the HP CD burner, a 3.25 floppy drive and a network card to the Linux machine, which I took out yesterday, and a 2-year-old BenQ monitor. There is also a second hard drive which has no operating system on it. Five years ago I was swamped with malware, so I bought a Mac to be my internet machine and none of my Windows computers ever went on the net again. Hundreds of hours later I had most of the malware off the Win98, which I use for drawing, photos, archives, financial records, appointments, contacts, etc. In short, my real work is all on this machine, and it's been working fine. Last week I turned it on (yes, I always do a proper shutdown), and not much happened: power light came on, hard drive light came on and stayed on, power supply fan ran, monitor told me there was no signal. The reset button worked, it did the same thing. The power button would not turn it off, so I disconnected the power. Besides taking out the unused network card, I tried booting in both CD drives, and the floppy drive. Couldn't even get DOS. No error messages, nothing except the "no signal." Can anybody help me figure out where to start troubleshooting? I'm reading a lot of the stuff on this web site, but nowhere is there the answer to the question "What do I do when I turn it on and nothing happens?" Looking forward to getting to know you all Darlene Hello Darbak, when you say you tried to reboot from the CD, do you mean with the original Windows install CD or do you have a bootable emergency disk? Im sure you may have tried some of these but no matter, perhaps you might try tapping the F8 key and see if it will go to safe mode. Take the battery out and wait 10 minutes. Reinsert it and FIND out any changes. Turn the computer off and REMOVE the power cord from the machine for a short while. Over 1 minute should do it to allow and power to disperse through capacitors. Test your result. Reseat your ram. Test it. Do you have another computer that you can install the hard drive into?Hello, Imnoguru; I tried booting with the original Win98SE CD, and others I knew to be bootable. I wasn't really expecting that to work, but I was surprised that the DOS floppy failed -- it should start in RAM alone. DOS would also be the surest way of recovering data. Re F8 key, that only works if a bootup commences ... I don't even get that. Power is always disconnected -- after I shut down, I turn off the power bar. Wouldn't know how to test the result ... or do you mean try to BOOT and see if anything is different? I'll do the ram reseat -- I've got it in pieces all over the desk, cleaning connections and crannies. Nervous about removing the battery ... will that not erase the BIOS or something else I can't re-create? I do have another Pentium of similar vintage, which I will mess with pretty much as a last resort. But thinking about it, I might be there already. There's another hard drive without O/S ... would anything be gained by switching the two? Do you have an opinion on the freezing technique? Thanks for replying. Darlene if you disconnect the hard drive, can you get an image on the screen when you boot? Also try a different graphics card, if possible. (borrow the other pentiums card if it has one).It seems to me, at this point, that we are looking at a mechanical failure rather than an issue with software. Quote from: Darbak on April 08, 2009, 01:36:05 PM Power is always disconnected -- after I shut down, I turn off the power bar. Wouldn't know how to test the result . I mean REMOVE THE POWER CORD FROM THE BOX. Ive found in the past that just switching off and walking away, isnt the same as taking the cable out altogether, waiting for a reasonable time for the residual electricity to drain and then reconnecting it and try a boot up. All I know there is it worked for me. Darbak, while you have the computer "on the bench" check to see if you have any swelling on the tops of capacitors on the mother board. ( I'll see if I can find a picture for you to compare) Quote from: Annon on September 08, 2008, 03:09:15 AM Quote from: Annon on August 30, 2008, 02:52:39 AM If you can not hear the fans turning, or if your system is hot , you have a problem. Spontaneous reboots and lock ups are a warning sign. If your system, on occasion, decides to shut down on its own accord, it may be the power supply. A system that freezes up is a sign as well. These are often defensive mechanisms on the part of your motherboard. Unhook all of your peripherals and try your system. If it works properly, then it might be one of your accessories that may be causing the problem rather than the PSU. End quote. Darbak,This is what you may be looking for if you have a problem with capacitors. Bulging capacitors click here. Reply to everyone who is trying to help. Yes, its a mechanical problem -- the fact that the power switch turns it on but not off is pretty good evidence of that. The cord has been pulled out for a couple of days, because that's the only way I could turn it off after it started failing to boot. Today I noticed that when it tries to start, it blinks the two CD readers, but not the floppy ... that would account for why my rescue and DOS disks don't accomplish anything. Tried it with a different monitor, too ... no contact. I pulled out everything from the power supply down today, cleaned and tightened loose connections. Reseated the RAM. Replaced the CMOS battery. I don't pay attention to goofy behaviors any more -- I've been using computers since 1978, and never encountered one that didn't act up every few days. It almost never meant imminent trouble. Tomorrow I'll look for bulging capacitors and other suggestions, and maybe even work up the nerve to try swapping parts with the other machine ... I'm scared I'll be sitting there with TWO dead machines. Your help is deeply appreciated. Stuck out here in the boonies means I don't have handy expert down the block. Thanks a lot. DarbakHave you tried to remove the hard drive from your faulty machine and install it into the working machine? Did that give you any success with your drive? Did boot up and you can recover any data you need? If so then the drive itself doesnt seem to be the faulty component. Also try to remove your A: drive and install that into your working computer test its operation. Quote from: Darbak on April 06, 2009, 05:59:55 PM Besides taking out the unused network card Try to reinstall this card and bring it back to its original position before the failure. Test that result. Darbak, do you get any beeps when you turn on the power? Does the screen come up with any error messages before the boot, such as no input connection or other? Quote from: Darbak on April 09, 2009, 12:19:32 AM Yes, its a mechanical problem -- the fact that the power switch turns it on but not off is pretty good evidence of that. what about holding the button?Sorry for not answering people individually -- I still have a farm to run and a broken foot, so there isn't as much time as I'd like for playing with my toys. Didn't touch it today -- roofer was here. No beeps when it tries to boot. The network card has never been in use -- it was just there in case I wanted the Win machine to talk to Linux box. I noticed STRANGE goings-on when it went in, and always meant to remove it anyway, but I'll put it back if you think it might make a difference in something. I have not been experiencing freezeups or unrequested reboots. The only odd thing that stands out in my memory was when I'd do a cold boot and open a text file, it would take forever for the file to get working. It would appear, but you couldn't do anything in it for maybe 1.5 - 2 minutes ... this was consistent and I got used to it. On the new BenQ monitor it's smart enough to realize something is trying to happen and blink a "NO SIGNAL" message. The old Samsung just stays black. I remain seriously concerned about just swapping parts between two different makes ... maybe I'll raid the Linux box instead because I don't use it much anyway. Power switch ... tried holding the button for 10 sec or so. Would longer help? THanks again! With all this help we ought to be able to make some kind of progress. Darback Ouch.. A broken foot isnt any fun. I hope its not too long before your on the mend. Quote from: Darbak on April 11, 2009, 12:33:22 AM I noticed strange goings-on when it went in, and always meant to remove it anyway, but I'll put it back if you think it might make a difference in something. What kind of strange goings on? Running slower? Booting up slower? I believe that it is best to get it, to, as original a condition before the problem, and test each item in sequence. I remain seriously concerned about just swapping parts between two different makes One was a Mac wasnt it? I dont think they are interchangeable. ( I dont know much about Macs ) Sorry.Hi ImnoGuru The network cards went in 2 or 3 years ago when I got the Linux, thinking I wanted to learn Linux for internet. I don't recall much, as my brain is even more ancient than my hardware, but I think that's when the slow-starting text files began. May have been other stuff, but the Win kept running so I didn't make any drastic measures. At the time it was bad enough that I was scaring myself half to death with the extreme things I was doing to clear out the malware. I scare easy. No, the Mac is what I bought for internet, and it's been dandy, but I'm still more productive in Windows because that's what I'm used to. The dead machine is a geek-shop assembly, the other I might swap things with is an eMachine brand ... very proprietary stuff in there. Couldn't even do my banking on line with it because it had a "virtual modem" and couldn't transfer wave files because they wouldn't play without the eMachine hardware. Another choice would be the Linux box, which was a baby geek learner project. If I unplugged the two hard drives, would it default to the floppy and at least let me launch DOS? Could I change the BIOS to include A: in the boot sequence and then plug the hard drives back in? Have a great weekend. The foot is an inconvenience, especially since I broke it last summer. Healed well, then I got busy trying to catch up with stuff and broke it again, but worse this time. Sigh. Darbak Aside: I have never had a straightforward computer problem -- mostly I've been able to fix things myself. The worst was when I got a machine that made random, irreproducible errors of all kinds. Half a dozen experts decided I was too stupid to own a computer, until I stumbled on a geek god who (in five minutes) determined that the hard drive had 1008 sectors and the BIOS thought it had 1024 ... since system data is stored at the end of the drive, every once in a while a system datum would be filed away in a non-existent sector. Boat anchor? Yes! Let's cut to the chase. Buy a refurbished PC with a warranty. It comes with mobo, case, PSU, memory, CPU, fan DVD/CD-R/W and a decent hard drive. And a floppy. And an OS. You just add monitor, keyboard and mouse. What is your time worth? Do you pay yourself minimum wage. It will take you over 12 hours to fix that Boat anchor. The Refurbished PC can be had for under $90. Hi Geek-9pm Thanks for your kind thoughts and enthusiastic assistance, but I have several more computers and half a dozen O/S's SCATTERED about. The object of the exercise is to recover the data, since it turns out my CD burner has been leaving gaps over the years. My time is worth nothing -- I haven't had to work for years. DarbakI agree with Geek-9pm, time is money. I know exactly where he is coming from. I done it too. Spent a lot of time trying to work out why it broke and how can I fix it. Its a very logical option to get another box for minimum cost and swap drives. However I have been in the situation too, that once I started the frustration just grew and grew and all logic went out the window, and I was determined not to let a mechanical box get the better of me.

Answer»

I know you're going to tell me my hard drive just DIED of old age, but I'm hoping for a miracle that will let me get it up and running long enough to get the data off it onto flash drives. Why flash drives? Because my *#&* HP CD burner I've been using faithfully for years copied folder names onto my many backup CDs, but very few of them actually contain files. I hate HP.

Here's what I have: a 1998 desktop assembled locally at a geek shop, running Win98SE. It has a CD reader, the HP CD burner, a 3.25 floppy drive and a network card to the Linux machine, which I took out yesterday, and a 2-year-old BenQ monitor. There is also a second hard drive which has no operating system on it. Five years ago I was swamped with malware, so I bought a Mac to be my internet machine and none of my Windows computers ever went on the net again. Hundreds of hours later I had most of the malware off the Win98, which I use for drawing, photos, archives, financial records, appointments, contacts, etc. In short, my real work is all on this machine, and it's been working fine.

Last week I turned it on (yes, I always do a proper shutdown), and not much happened: power light came on, hard drive light came on and stayed on, power supply fan ran, monitor told me there was no signal. The reset button worked, it did the same thing. The power button would not turn it off, so I disconnected the power. Besides taking out the unused network card, I tried booting in both CD drives, and the floppy drive. Couldn't even get DOS. No error messages, nothing except the "no signal."

Can anybody help me figure out where to start troubleshooting? I'm reading a lot of the stuff on this web site, but nowhere is there the answer to the question "What do I do when I turn it on and nothing happens?"

Looking forward to getting to know you all

Darlene

Hello Darbak, when you say you tried to reboot from the CD, do you mean with the original Windows install CD or do you have a bootable emergency disk?

Im sure you may have tried some of these but no matter, perhaps you might try tapping the F8 key and see if it will go to safe mode.
Take the battery out and wait 10 minutes. Reinsert it and FIND out any changes.
Turn the computer off and REMOVE the power cord from the machine for a short while. Over 1 minute should do it to allow and power to disperse through capacitors.
Test your result.
Reseat your ram. Test it.

Do you have another computer that you can install the hard drive into?Hello, Imnoguru;

I tried booting with the original Win98SE CD, and others I knew to be bootable. I wasn't really expecting that to work, but I was surprised that the DOS floppy failed -- it should start in RAM alone. DOS would also be the surest way of recovering data.

Re F8 key, that only works if a bootup commences ... I don't even get that. Power is always disconnected -- after I shut down, I turn off the power bar. Wouldn't know how to test the result ... or do you mean try to BOOT and see if anything is different?

I'll do the ram reseat -- I've got it in pieces all over the desk, cleaning connections and crannies. Nervous about removing the battery ... will that not erase the BIOS or something else I can't re-create?

I do have another Pentium of similar vintage, which I will mess with pretty much as a last resort. But thinking about it, I might be there already. There's another hard drive without O/S ... would anything be gained by switching the two?

Do you have an opinion on the freezing technique?

Thanks for replying.
Darlene if you disconnect the hard drive, can you get an image on the screen when you boot?

Also try a different graphics card, if possible. (borrow the other pentiums card if it has one).It seems to me, at this point, that we are looking at a mechanical failure rather than an issue with software.

Quote from: Darbak on April 08, 2009, 01:36:05 PM

Power is always disconnected -- after I shut down, I turn off the power bar. Wouldn't know how to test the result .

I mean REMOVE THE POWER CORD FROM THE BOX. Ive found in the past that just switching off and walking away, isnt the same as taking the cable out altogether, waiting for a reasonable time for the residual electricity to drain and then reconnecting it and try a boot up.
All I know there is it worked for me.

Darbak, while you have the computer "on the bench" check to see if you have any swelling on the tops of capacitors on the mother board. ( I'll see if I can find a picture for you to compare)

Quote from: Annon on September 08, 2008, 03:09:15 AM
Quote from: Annon on August 30, 2008, 02:52:39 AM
If you can not hear the fans turning, or if your system is hot , you have a problem.

Spontaneous reboots and lock ups are a warning sign. If your system, on occasion, decides to shut down on its own accord, it may be the power supply. A system that freezes up is a sign as well. These are often defensive mechanisms on the part of your motherboard.

Unhook all of your peripherals and try your system. If it works properly, then it might be one of your accessories that may be causing the problem rather than the PSU.
End quote.
Darbak,This is what you may be looking for if you have a problem with capacitors.
Bulging capacitors click here.

Reply to everyone who is trying to help.

Yes, its a mechanical problem -- the fact that the power switch turns it on but not off is pretty good evidence of that.

The cord has been pulled out for a couple of days, because that's the only way I could turn it off after it started failing to boot.

Today I noticed that when it tries to start, it blinks the two CD readers, but not the floppy ... that would account for why my rescue and DOS disks don't accomplish anything. Tried it with a different monitor, too ... no contact.

I pulled out everything from the power supply down today, cleaned and tightened loose connections. Reseated the RAM. Replaced the CMOS battery.

I don't pay attention to goofy behaviors any more -- I've been using computers since 1978, and never encountered one that didn't act up every few days. It almost never meant imminent trouble.

Tomorrow I'll look for bulging capacitors and other suggestions, and maybe even work up the nerve to try swapping parts with the other machine ... I'm scared I'll be sitting there with TWO dead machines.

Your help is deeply appreciated. Stuck out here in the boonies means I don't have handy expert down the block. Thanks a lot.

DarbakHave you tried to remove the hard drive from your faulty machine and install it into the working machine?
Did that give you any success with your drive? Did boot up and you can recover any data you need?
If so then the drive itself doesnt seem to be the faulty component.
Also try to remove your A: drive and install that into your working computer test its operation.

Quote from: Darbak on April 06, 2009, 05:59:55 PM

Besides taking out the unused network card

Try to reinstall this card and bring it back to its original position before the failure.
Test that result.

Darbak, do you get any beeps when you turn on the power?
Does the screen come up with any error messages before the boot, such as no input connection or other? Quote from: Darbak on April 09, 2009, 12:19:32 AM

Yes, its a mechanical problem -- the fact that the power switch turns it on but not off is pretty good evidence of that.

what about holding the button?Sorry for not answering people individually -- I still have a farm to run and a broken foot, so there isn't as much time as I'd like for playing with my toys.

Didn't touch it today -- roofer was here. No beeps when it tries to boot. The network card has never been in use -- it was just there in case I wanted the Win machine to talk to Linux box. I noticed STRANGE goings-on when it went in, and always meant to remove it anyway, but I'll put it back if you think it might make a difference in something.

I have not been experiencing freezeups or unrequested reboots. The only odd thing that stands out in my memory was when I'd do a cold boot and open a text file, it would take forever for the file to get working. It would appear, but you couldn't do anything in it for maybe 1.5 - 2 minutes ... this was consistent and I got used to it.

On the new BenQ monitor it's smart enough to realize something is trying to happen and blink a "NO SIGNAL" message. The old Samsung just stays black.

I remain seriously concerned about just swapping parts between two different makes ... maybe I'll raid the Linux box instead because I don't use it much anyway.

Power switch ... tried holding the button for 10 sec or so. Would longer help?

THanks again! With all this help we ought to be able to make some kind of progress.

Darback

Ouch.. A broken foot isnt any fun. I hope its not too long before your on the mend.

Quote from: Darbak on April 11, 2009, 12:33:22 AM

I noticed strange goings-on when it went in, and always meant to remove it anyway, but I'll put it back if you think it might make a difference in something.

What kind of strange goings on?
Running slower? Booting up slower?

I believe that it is best to get it, to, as original a condition before the problem, and test each item in sequence.

I remain seriously concerned about just swapping parts between two different makes

One was a Mac wasnt it? I dont think they are interchangeable. ( I dont know much about Macs ) Sorry.Hi ImnoGuru

The network cards went in 2 or 3 years ago when I got the Linux, thinking I wanted to learn Linux for internet. I don't recall much, as my brain is even more ancient than my hardware, but I think that's when the slow-starting text files began. May have been other stuff, but the Win kept running so I didn't make any drastic measures. At the time it was bad enough that I was scaring myself half to death with the extreme things I was doing to clear out the malware. I scare easy.

No, the Mac is what I bought for internet, and it's been dandy, but I'm still more productive in Windows because that's what I'm used to. The dead machine is a geek-shop assembly, the other I might swap things with is an eMachine brand ... very proprietary stuff in there. Couldn't even do my banking on line with it because it had a "virtual modem" and couldn't transfer wave files because they wouldn't play without the eMachine hardware. Another choice would be the Linux box, which was a baby geek learner project.

If I unplugged the two hard drives, would it default to the floppy and at least let me launch DOS? Could I change the BIOS to include A: in the boot sequence and then plug the hard drives back in?

Have a great weekend. The foot is an inconvenience, especially since I broke it last summer. Healed well, then I got busy trying to catch up with stuff and broke it again, but worse this time. Sigh.

Darbak

Aside: I have never had a straightforward computer problem -- mostly I've been able to fix things myself. The worst was when I got a machine that made random, irreproducible errors of all kinds. Half a dozen experts decided I was too stupid to own a computer, until I stumbled on a geek god who (in five minutes) determined that the hard drive had 1008 sectors and the BIOS thought it had 1024 ... since system data is stored at the end of the drive, every once in a while a system datum would be filed away in a non-existent sector.

Boat anchor?
Yes!
Let's cut to the chase.
Buy a refurbished PC with a warranty. It comes with mobo, case, PSU, memory, CPU, fan DVD/CD-R/W and a decent hard drive. And a floppy. And an OS.
You just add monitor, keyboard and mouse.

What is your time worth? Do you pay yourself minimum wage.
It will take you over 12 hours to fix that Boat anchor.
The Refurbished PC can be had for under $90.
Hi Geek-9pm

Thanks for your kind thoughts and enthusiastic assistance, but I have several more computers and half a dozen O/S's SCATTERED about. The object of the exercise is to recover the data, since it turns out my CD burner has been leaving gaps over the years. My time is worth nothing -- I haven't had to work for years.

DarbakI agree with Geek-9pm, time is money. I know exactly where he is coming from.
I done it too. Spent a lot of time trying to work out why it broke and how can I fix it.
Its a very logical option to get another box for minimum cost and swap drives.

However I have been in the situation too, that once I started the frustration just grew and grew and all logic went out the window, and I was determined not to let a mechanical box get the better of me.

Solve : Boat anchor?

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