Solve : FCC 'Home wireless will be great!'?

1.	Solve : FCC 'Home wireless will be great!'?
Answer» Home wireless will get better, so says the Federal Communications Commission. In essence, that is what they said. but it didn't make the headlines. Last year the FCC in the United States announced that a large segment of the extreme high-frequency band will be available for unlicensed short range use. Such applications would include such things as body ending, and automobile radar collision prevention. But there is a lot more. Many other countries are doing the same.] The really big news may comes in the area of wireless home entertainment, including computer gaming. A piece of spectrum that has been set aside for unlicensed use is said to be a great piece of trash. Nobody wants it. Except the astronomers. The range is extremely limited and it is practically line of sight only. [Both military and commercial investigators all over the world have been working on EHF applications for several years. This post is about the FCC decision to let vendors start selling EHF wireless devices to the general public with no license required. ] Actually, Line of Sight is its big advantage. Consider the following. Someday in the future some telecommunications company will provide all the data service you need through a single eyebrow able right to your doorstep. Or maybe very close your doorstep. Now you have the choice of either wiring your house with Ethernet, or with all the people, or using the new extreme high-frequency band to distribute information to route your house. There'll be enough spectrum space to handle all the data transmission two could possibly want inside your house. No need to run a cable to every television set or entertainment center you have. It can all be connected to a wireless system based on the new 60 GHz license free band. In this line of sight. Line of sight and nothing more. It will not bother your neighbors unless you have a window that faces the window on their house. But even then there is so much bandwidth available that you can use different channels, if need be. But what about rooms that have closed doors and no openings near the ceiling to allow extreme high-frequency signals to pass? There are already is a tasteful solution for that problem, but I'm not going to give the details here, instead let somebody else the announcement later on. But I'll give you a clue, it's not as hard as one might imagine. In fact, it is cheaper and easier than putting in Ethernet. And much, much more effective than our current Wi-Fi system. It's all about the bandwidth. More bandwidth than you can imagine. Literally. And it is Free. Like in Free. [References upon request. But it is hard to find a single article the explains the potential. The mass media don't understand it and have put it on the back page.. Yet it has the potential of turning the home entertainment industry upside down.] To do your own research, start here. (NOTE reference to 60GHz band.) Extremely high frequency From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia Quote These frequencies, as opposed to the 60 GHz frequency, require a transmitting license in the US... Quote Such applications would include such things as body ending, and automobile radar collision prevention. But there is a lot more. body ending??Whoa, ah.. scanning. Blame the spell checker When you go to the airport they can see through your cloths with EHF radar. If you don't like it, you get a body search by a human. But the point of my post was how EHF will impact home entertainments systems. It has not yet been determined that a EHF body scanner could be part of home entertainment. Quote from: Geek-9pm on January 24, 2011, 09:59:46 PM When you go to the airport they can see through your cloths with EHF radar. Oh no! Not my cloths!Let me see here I can either use one wireless router to run everything I need to in my house or I can install multiple devices to run the same things due to "Line of sight". I will pick one wireless router any day. Do you really understand how "Line of Sight" works? Have you ever propped your feet up while watching TV and suddenly the remote doesn't work due to your feet being in the way. Guess what causes that? Your feet are blocking the "line of sight" between the remote and the sensor. I would HATE to have a laptop that I can only use in one spot in my house due to some stupid line of sight issues or be downloading a file just to have some one walk by and interrupt the line of sight and have to start over on the down load due to the lost signal. As far as gaming goes I would really hate to be in the middle of a fierce Qbert battle just to have fluffy the family hippo decide to nap on the back of the sofa and block the signal. I am not even going to get started on the whole "And it is Free. Like in Free." remark.Mroilfield, your ASSESSMENT is correct. That is why the general consensus is that the whole EHF thing is of limited value. Many Engineers call it a 'junk' band. At one time the Wi-Fi spectrum was not available for unlicensed use. That held back the development of UHF technology called "spread spectrum:" Once government restrictions were lifted, it became useful. The problem with current Wi-Fi systems is the lack of bandwidth. It is getting to the point where your neighbors interfere with your connection speed.It goes through walls and fences. Only ten narrow channels available. The link below is not about the new 60GHz band. Rather, it explains why "spread spectrum" is still a young science and may hold the key to future development of "line of sight" communications http://www.sss-mag.com/ss.html Yes, the new 60GHz band is very much like the infrared. True, almost anything will block it. But it has bandwidth. Lots of bandwidth. It can do things not yet possible with infrared. (Because of technical barriers with infrared. But that is another story.) Quote from: Geek-9pm on January 25, 2011, 03:36:39 AM Yes, the new 60GHz band is very much like the infrared. True, almost anything will block it. But it has bandwidth. Lots of bandwidth. It can do things not yet possible with infrared. (Because of technical barriers with infrared. But that is another story.) I don't care how much bandwidth it has if I get disconnected every time some one or something passes thru the line of sight or if I have to have multiple units spread out thru my house to make sure I have line of sight where I need I still won't use it. That is like giving some one a Lamborghini and telling them they can drive it as fast as they want in the straightaways but then putting them on a track that is 90% curves. True the power and speed possibilities are there but it would be majorly suck as you hardly ever get to take advantage of it unless you just drive back and forth on the straightaway and forget the rest of the track.The line of sight issue is not going to stop 60 GHz wireless from being a success. That issue has already been resolved. (Please let us know if you want the technical references on this. It is very boring stuff.) At this point the disclaimer is appropriate. We do not represent in any way many companies who are actively involved in developing new products and standards for the 60 GHz wireless structure. Much of the information available over the Internet is already dated at least one -year-old. Still, it is not out of date news. Here is just one of many recent references that makes this point. Quote ...a big step up from 802.11n, currently the fastest standard widely supported. It would be a huge boon to people doing lots of wireless file transfer: for example, it would make 1080p high-definition video streaming super speedy Below is one of the most recent reports I have found on the future of the 60 GHz wireless story. It does get rather heavy on the technical stuff, but it does show the industry is quite serious about deployment of high quality, high performance and low cost wireless equipment that uses the 60 GHz band. http://www.kumasignals.com/pdfs/daniels_heath_etal_kumasignals_60GHz_MTT_article.pdf It is not necessary to sign up to read this PDF document. Some additional information is available from the IEEE, but you have to be a member in order to get access to their library. Please let us know if you have any questions about this topic. Quote from: Geek-9pm on January 28, 2011, 08:31:27 PM The line of sight issue is not going to stop 60 GHz wireless from being a success. That issue has already been resolved. Well this is the 4th post you made on the subject so why don't you go ahead and tell us how this is resolved as you seem to be leaving that out for some reason. Quote from: Geek-9pm on January 28, 2011, 08:31:27 PM (Please let us know if you want the technical references on this. It is very boring stuff.) We do not represent in any way many companies who are actively involved in developing new products and standards for the 60 GHz wireless structure. Please let us know if you have any questions about this topic. Ok now I see. What company are you representing here as this is starting to sound like a freak-in sales pitch. Quote from: Geek-9pm on January 25, 2011, 03:36:39 AM Rather, it explains why "spread spectrum" is still a young science and may hold the key to future development of "line of sight" communications Spread spectrum technology has been in commercial use for at least 20 years, if not longer, and probably longer in military use. I'm sure the 60 GHz band will find many uses, but it does have it's limitations. Quote from: mroilfield on January 28, 2011, 10:45:45 PM Well this is the 4th post you made on the subject so why don't you go ahead and tell us how this is resolved as you seem to be leaving that out for some reason. Well, the solution is a big messy. see, to prevent your feet obstructing the signal, you are required to chop off your feet. If people walk in front of it and block your signal... well, let's just say they would be better off not doing so. Quote The problem with current Wi-Fi systems is the lack of bandwidth. It is getting to the point where your neighbors interfere with your connection speed.It goes through walls and fences. Only ten narrow channels available. on the other hand, since EVERYBODY generally keeps the default settings and almost all routers seem to default to channel 6, merely switching to one of the other fourteen channels. there are 14 Wifi channels, not 10. adjacent channels have some overlap but that's hardly a problem). Of course many of these channels are restricted in different locales; 12,13, and 14 are not available for use in North AMERICA; (that still makes you incorrect since there are still 11 channels to use, not 10). Additionally, as I noted, almost all "neighbourly" interference can be eliminated merely by changing the channel, since almost nobody changes the default you'll be all alone. Additionally, you seem to present a dual case; the range is bad when you compare it to this new 60ghz tech, and the range is good when it is a demerit for it, such as for interference with other connections. It cannot be both. Additionally, when you say it "goes through walls and fences" you are somewhat incorrect; the signal is weakened by having to travel through anything but air. This is why the general consensus is to attempt to make sure any connection points and the straight line between them and the access point go through as little solid material as possible; ideally, any direct line travel would be as perpendicular as possible to any walls, going through a 2 foot wall at an angle is going to make it seem like longer then 2 feet in the context of signal degradation. Even with such signal degradation, it's still better then the signal being stopped by a stray bit of fluff sitting in front of the receiver. You're leaning into this whole salesman thing too hard. you're ignoring the obvious weaknesses of the technology, and in fact you are saying the weaknesses of the tech (the fact that it can be blocked by nearly anything) as an advantage "your neighbors cannot interfere with your connection!". Meanwhile, you say "the industry is serious" about it. That cannot possibly be true because if they were serious we would be using it for the applications you specify- it is in use, but not for network applications of the same nature as Wifi. Quote from: BC_Programmer on January 28, 2011, 11:04:42 PM Well, the solution is a big messy. see, to prevent your feet obstructing the signal, you are required to chop off your feet. If people walk in front of it and block your signal... well, let's just say they would be better off not doing so. Quote from: Geek-9pm on January 24, 2011, 03:29:56 PM Such applications would include such things as body ending It makes sense now. The intent was to share information about an emerging technology. The comments received indicate there is no point in going any further with this topic. Apparently our weakness in writeup skills attract more interests than the topic itself. No. Wait. I wasn't trying to be mean, I swear. Can you give us the technical details? I'm interested. Quote from: Geek-9pm on January 29, 2011, 12:34:15 AM Apparently our weakness in writeup skills attract more interests than the topic itself. How many people share the "Geek-9pm" user name? You keep saying "us", "we", and "our" so you are either working with other people to push this technology or multiple people are using the same user name. If it is multiple people using the same user name that would explain a lot. I am still waiting for you to explain how the line of sight issue has been resolved.

Answer»

Home wireless will get better, so says the Federal Communications Commission.
In essence, that is what they said. but it didn't make the headlines.
Last year the FCC in the United States announced that a large segment of the extreme high-frequency band will be available for unlicensed short range use. Such applications would include such things as body ending, and automobile radar collision prevention. But there is a lot more.
Many other countries are doing the same.]

The really big news may comes in the area of wireless home entertainment, including computer gaming. A piece of spectrum that has been set aside for unlicensed use is said to be a great piece of trash. Nobody wants it. Except the astronomers. The range is extremely limited and it is practically line of sight only.

[Both military and commercial investigators all over the world have been working on EHF applications for several years. This post is about the FCC decision to let vendors start selling EHF wireless devices to the general public with no license required. ]

Actually, Line of Sight is its big advantage. Consider the following.
Someday in the future some telecommunications company will provide all the data service you need through a single eyebrow able right to your doorstep. Or maybe very close your doorstep. Now you have the choice of either wiring your house with Ethernet, or with all the people, or using the new extreme high-frequency band to distribute information to route your house. There'll be enough spectrum space to handle all the data transmission two could possibly want inside your house. No need to run a cable to every television set or entertainment center you have. It can all be connected to a wireless system based on the new 60 GHz license free band.

In this line of sight. Line of sight and nothing more. It will not bother your neighbors unless you have a window that faces the window on their house. But even then there is so much bandwidth available that you can use different channels, if need be. But what about rooms that have closed doors and no openings near the ceiling to allow extreme high-frequency signals to pass? There are already is a tasteful solution for that problem, but I'm not going to give the details here, instead let somebody else the announcement later on. But I'll give you a clue, it's not as hard as one might imagine. In fact, it is cheaper and easier than putting in Ethernet. And much, much more effective than our current Wi-Fi system. It's all about the bandwidth. More bandwidth than you can imagine. Literally. And it is Free. Like in Free.

[References upon request. But it is hard to find a single article the explains the potential. The mass media don't understand it and have put it on the back page.. Yet it has the potential of turning the home entertainment industry upside down.]

To do your own research, start here. (NOTE reference to 60GHz band.)
Extremely high frequency
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Quote

These frequencies, as opposed to the 60 GHz frequency, require a transmitting license in the US...

Quote

Such applications would include such things as body ending, and automobile radar collision prevention. But there is a lot more.

body ending??Whoa, ah.. scanning. Blame the spell checker

When you go to the airport they can see through your cloths with EHF radar. If you don't like it, you get a body search by a human.

But the point of my post was how EHF will impact home entertainments systems. It has not yet been determined that a EHF body scanner could be part of home entertainment.

Quote from: Geek-9pm on January 24, 2011, 09:59:46 PM

When you go to the airport they can see through your cloths with EHF radar.

Oh no! Not my cloths!Let me see here I can either use one wireless router to run everything I need to in my house or I can install multiple devices to run the same things due to "Line of sight".

I will pick one wireless router any day.

Do you really understand how "Line of Sight" works? Have you ever propped your feet up while watching TV and suddenly the remote doesn't work due to your feet being in the way. Guess what causes that? Your feet are blocking the "line of sight" between the remote and the sensor.

I would HATE to have a laptop that I can only use in one spot in my house due to some stupid line of sight issues or be downloading a file just to have some one walk by and interrupt the line of sight and have to start over on the down load due to the lost signal.

As far as gaming goes I would really hate to be in the middle of a fierce Qbert battle just to have fluffy the family hippo decide to nap on the back of the sofa and block the signal.

I am not even going to get started on the whole "And it is Free. Like in Free." remark.Mroilfield, your ASSESSMENT is correct. That is why the general consensus is that the whole EHF thing is of limited value. Many Engineers call it a 'junk' band.

At one time the Wi-Fi spectrum was not available for unlicensed use. That held back the development of UHF technology called "spread spectrum:" Once government restrictions were lifted, it became useful.

The problem with current Wi-Fi systems is the lack of bandwidth. It is getting to the point where your neighbors interfere with your connection speed.It goes through walls and fences. Only ten narrow channels available.

The link below is not about the new 60GHz band. Rather, it explains why "spread spectrum" is still a young science and may hold the key to future development of "line of sight" communications
http://www.sss-mag.com/ss.html

Yes, the new 60GHz band is very much like the infrared. True, almost anything will block it. But it has bandwidth. Lots of bandwidth. It can do things not yet possible with infrared. (Because of technical barriers with infrared. But that is another story.) Quote from: Geek-9pm on January 25, 2011, 03:36:39 AM

Yes, the new 60GHz band is very much like the infrared. True, almost anything will block it. But it has bandwidth. Lots of bandwidth. It can do things not yet possible with infrared. (Because of technical barriers with infrared. But that is another story.)

I don't care how much bandwidth it has if I get disconnected every time some one or something passes thru the line of sight or if I have to have multiple units spread out thru my house to make sure I have line of sight where I need I still won't use it.

That is like giving some one a Lamborghini and telling them they can drive it as fast as they want in the straightaways but then putting them on a track that is 90% curves. True the power and speed possibilities are there but it would be majorly suck as you hardly ever get to take advantage of it unless you just drive back and forth on the straightaway and forget the rest of the track.The line of sight issue is not going to stop 60 GHz wireless from being a success. That issue has already been resolved. (Please let us know if you want the technical references on this. It is very boring stuff.)
At this point the disclaimer is appropriate. We do not represent in any way many companies who are actively involved in developing new products and standards for the 60 GHz wireless structure. Much of the information available over the Internet is already dated at least one -year-old. Still, it is not out of date news. Here is just one of many recent references that makes this point.
Quote

...a big step up from 802.11n, currently the fastest standard widely supported. It would be a huge boon to people doing lots of wireless file transfer: for example, it would make 1080p high-definition video streaming super speedy

Below is one of the most recent reports I have found on the future of the 60 GHz wireless story. It does get rather heavy on the technical stuff, but it does show the industry is quite serious about deployment of high quality, high performance and low cost wireless equipment that uses the 60 GHz band.

http://www.kumasignals.com/pdfs/daniels_heath_etal_kumasignals_60GHz_MTT_article.pdf

It is not necessary to sign up to read this PDF document. Some additional information is available from the IEEE, but you have to be a member in order to get access to their library.
Please let us know if you have any questions about this topic. Quote from: Geek-9pm on January 28, 2011, 08:31:27 PM

The line of sight issue is not going to stop 60 GHz wireless from being a success. That issue has already been resolved.

Well this is the 4th post you made on the subject so why don't you go ahead and tell us how this is resolved as you seem to be leaving that out for some reason.

Quote from: Geek-9pm on January 28, 2011, 08:31:27 PM

(Please let us know if you want the technical references on this. It is very boring stuff.)

We do not represent in any way many companies who are actively involved in developing new products and standards for the 60 GHz wireless structure.

Please let us know if you have any questions about this topic.

Ok now I see. What company are you representing here as this is starting to sound like a freak-in sales pitch. Quote from: Geek-9pm on January 25, 2011, 03:36:39 AM

Rather, it explains why "spread spectrum" is still a young science and may hold the key to future development of "line of sight" communications

Spread spectrum technology has been in commercial use for at least 20 years, if not longer, and probably longer in military use.

I'm sure the 60 GHz band will find many uses, but it does have it's limitations. Quote from: mroilfield on January 28, 2011, 10:45:45 PM

Well this is the 4th post you made on the subject so why don't you go ahead and tell us how this is resolved as you seem to be leaving that out for some reason.

Well, the solution is a big messy. see, to prevent your feet obstructing the signal, you are required to chop off your feet. If people walk in front of it and block your signal... well, let's just say they would be better off not doing so.

Quote

The problem with current Wi-Fi systems is the lack of bandwidth. It is getting to the point where your neighbors interfere with your connection speed.It goes through walls and fences. Only ten narrow channels available.

on the other hand, since EVERYBODY generally keeps the default settings and almost all routers seem to default to channel 6, merely switching to one of the other fourteen channels. there are 14 Wifi channels, not 10. adjacent channels have some overlap but that's hardly a problem). Of course many of these channels are restricted in different locales; 12,13, and 14 are not available for use in North AMERICA; (that still makes you incorrect since there are still 11 channels to use, not 10). Additionally, as I noted, almost all "neighbourly" interference can be eliminated merely by changing the channel, since almost nobody changes the default you'll be all alone.

Additionally, you seem to present a dual case; the range is bad when you compare it to this new 60ghz tech, and the range is good when it is a demerit for it, such as for interference with other connections. It cannot be both. Additionally, when you say it "goes through walls and fences" you are somewhat incorrect; the signal is weakened by having to travel through anything but air. This is why the general consensus is to attempt to make sure any connection points and the straight line between them and the access point go through as little solid material as possible; ideally, any direct line travel would be as perpendicular as possible to any walls, going through a 2 foot wall at an angle is going to make it seem like longer then 2 feet in the context of signal degradation. Even with such signal degradation, it's still better then the signal being stopped by a stray bit of fluff sitting in front of the receiver. You're leaning into this whole salesman thing too hard. you're ignoring the obvious weaknesses of the technology, and in fact you are saying the weaknesses of the tech (the fact that it can be blocked by nearly anything) as an advantage "your neighbors cannot interfere with your connection!". Meanwhile, you say "the industry is serious" about it. That cannot possibly be true because if they were serious we would be using it for the applications you specify- it is in use, but not for network applications of the same nature as Wifi.

Quote from: BC_Programmer on January 28, 2011, 11:04:42 PM

Well, the solution is a big messy. see, to prevent your feet obstructing the signal, you are required to chop off your feet. If people walk in front of it and block your signal... well, let's just say they would be better off not doing so.

Quote from: Geek-9pm on January 24, 2011, 03:29:56 PM

Such applications would include such things as body ending

It makes sense now. The intent was to share information about an emerging technology. The comments received indicate there is no point in going any further with this topic. Apparently our weakness in writeup skills attract more interests than the topic itself.

No. Wait.
I wasn't trying to be mean, I swear.

Can you give us the technical details? I'm interested. Quote from: Geek-9pm on January 29, 2011, 12:34:15 AM

Apparently our weakness in writeup skills attract more interests than the topic itself.

How many people share the "Geek-9pm" user name? You keep saying "us", "we", and "our" so you are either working with other people to push this technology or multiple people are using the same user name.

If it is multiple people using the same user name that would explain a lot.

I am still waiting for you to explain how the line of sight issue has been resolved.

Solve : FCC 'Home wireless will be great!'?

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