Solve : Liquid Cooling Quality question?

1.	Solve : Liquid Cooling Quality question?
Answer» Friend of mine wants to get a low cost liquid cooler for his Phenom II x4 945 to overclock it and I am advising him to go with a known name brand that has good REVIEWS vs a low cost liquid cooler with so-so 3 star reviews. Anyone know if you have to worry about leaks in cheaper liquid cooler kits or if the only concern is really in the thermal transfer property rating of liquid coolers? If leakage is a risk with lower cost liquid coolers, he was wondering if replacing the liquid with mineral oil might be better as he saw a fish tank on youtube with an entire system submerged in mineral oil its non conductive and so the system worked. He was thinking about going low cost cooler and mineral oil possibly if there is a risk of a leak with water based (conductive) coolant, as for if mineral oil leaks no problem the system is not trashed, just oily in the area of the leak etc. Video here is what he saw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Eub39NaC4rc He is planning on pushing his CPU to the max for overclock and so even a high end air coolant based heatsink probably wouldnt be adequate enough. I was suggesting to him to upgrade from the Phenom II x4 945 to a Phenom II x6 1055T for around $85 and forget liquid COOLING running that 6 core stock, since his ASUS motherboard supports 6 core CPU's and the 1055T is in its CPU supported listing. But he seems to think that he can just push the quadcore harder and it will respond with better performance and it would be cool to have liquid cooling, yet he doesnt really want to spend a lot of money either. Maybe I should be suggesting to him to dunk his motherboard with graphics card in a tank of low cost mineral oil and free fish tank from fish that died long ago... I'd make sure you go for a reputable brand and not some sort of cheap generic one. I also wouldn't remotely think about putting mineral oil in one, they are not remotely designed to pump a thicker liquid such as that and you risk clogging things up/burning out the pump - It also isn't going to be remotely as good thermally as a proper coolant. That said, basic liquid coolers perform around the same as a high end air cooler, in order to get any benefit with liquid you need to go to a high end custom loop, if he's that worried about leaks, just get an air cooler. There is no reason that a good air cooler won't let you overclock that CPU to very high levels.Mineral oil has a dielectric property that differs from free air. This may have some impact on performance. To be cost effective, he could consider outing the whole thing inside a small fridge (Not a joke. Many have done it.). See tom;s Hardware. http://www.tomshardware.com/answers/id-1682004/mini-fridge-freezer-cooled.html Some SAY no: http://www.overclockers.com/forums/showthread.php/373263-Why-a-mini-fridge-won-t-work Others do it anyway: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DgT_zcsrCj0 (And it was a nightmare.) The cost of the fridge may be comparable to the time spent building cooling system. But if your labor is free, custom building would be cheaper. Quote from: Geek-9pm on July 05, 2015, 08:00:53 AM To be cost effective, he could consider outing the whole thing inside a small fridge (Not a joke. Many have done it.). See tom;s Hardware. the very first response points out why this is a stupid idea. Refrigerators/freezers are designed to maintain a constant temperature but not when there is a constant load. You stick stuff in your freezer, it freezes, and from that point it just needs to be kept frozen. With a computer the system is constantly generating heat which needs to go somewhere, and the refrigerant pumps in refrigerators/freezers are not designed for constant run-time.Not to mention the condensation... THANKS for the info... going to print this out and try to persuade him into going with a better 6 core CPU and stock air cooling vs overclocking heavily the quadcore as well as inform him that the mineral oil idea is very bad for a liquid cooling pump, and if he doesnt go the route of a better CPU for better performance that he shoudl invest in a higher end air cooled heatsink or a QUALITY liquid cooling kit that you dont have to worry about leaks or pump failing due to quality issues. Quote from: camerongray on July 05, 2015, 07:47:03 AM That said, basic liquid coolers perform around the same as a high end air cooler, in order to get any benefit with liquid you need to go to a high end custom loop, if he's that worried about leaks, just get an air cooler. There is no reason that a good air cooler won't let you overclock that CPU to very high levels. Just seconding this hard. You want to keep that Phenom around 60C at max, I've clocked dozens of these to 4GHz (sometimes more) with upper mid range air coolers. They do like the voltage as you clock them higher so temperature can easily become your limiting factor rather than hitting your CPU or motherboard's wall. Fond memories of overclocking my 1055T (admittedly a totally different proposition to the 945) with a Thermalright Silver Arrow and San Ace fan... Not sure on the price of a 1055T these days, you'll likely see a lower max clock from the 1055T than the 945 so unless his workload is well multithreaded the 945 and a good cooler might be a better proposition than the 1055T especially if the 1055T isn't that cheap. A good cooler can be kept for his next system too.

Answer»

Friend of mine wants to get a low cost liquid cooler for his Phenom II x4 945 to overclock it and I am advising him to go with a known name brand that has good REVIEWS vs a low cost liquid cooler with so-so 3 star reviews.

Anyone know if you have to worry about leaks in cheaper liquid cooler kits or if the only concern is really in the thermal transfer property rating of liquid coolers?

If leakage is a risk with lower cost liquid coolers, he was wondering if replacing the liquid with mineral oil might be better as he saw a fish tank on youtube with an entire system submerged in mineral oil its non conductive and so the system worked. He was thinking about going low cost cooler and mineral oil possibly if there is a risk of a leak with water based (conductive) coolant, as for if mineral oil leaks no problem the system is not trashed, just oily in the area of the leak etc. Video here is what he saw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Eub39NaC4rc

He is planning on pushing his CPU to the max for overclock and so even a high end air coolant based heatsink probably wouldnt be adequate enough. I was suggesting to him to upgrade from the Phenom II x4 945 to a Phenom II x6 1055T for around $85 and forget liquid COOLING running that 6 core stock, since his ASUS motherboard supports 6 core CPU's and the 1055T is in its CPU supported listing. But he seems to think that he can just push the quadcore harder and it will respond with better performance and it would be cool to have liquid cooling, yet he doesnt really want to spend a lot of money either.

Maybe I should be suggesting to him to dunk his motherboard with graphics card in a tank of low cost mineral oil and free fish tank from fish that died long ago...

I'd make sure you go for a reputable brand and not some sort of cheap generic one. I also wouldn't remotely think about putting mineral oil in one, they are not remotely designed to pump a thicker liquid such as that and you risk clogging things up/burning out the pump - It also isn't going to be remotely as good thermally as a proper coolant.

That said, basic liquid coolers perform around the same as a high end air cooler, in order to get any benefit with liquid you need to go to a high end custom loop, if he's that worried about leaks, just get an air cooler. There is no reason that a good air cooler won't let you overclock that CPU to very high levels.Mineral oil has a dielectric property that differs from free air. This may have some impact on performance.

To be cost effective, he could consider outing the whole thing inside a small fridge (Not a joke. Many have done it.). See tom;s Hardware.
http://www.tomshardware.com/answers/id-1682004/mini-fridge-freezer-cooled.html
Some SAY no:
http://www.overclockers.com/forums/showthread.php/373263-Why-a-mini-fridge-won-t-work
Others do it anyway:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DgT_zcsrCj0
(And it was a nightmare.)
The cost of the fridge may be comparable to the time spent building cooling system. But if your labor is free, custom building would be cheaper.

Quote from: Geek-9pm on July 05, 2015, 08:00:53 AM

To be cost effective, he could consider outing the whole thing inside a small fridge (Not a joke. Many have done it.). See tom;s Hardware.

the very first response points out why this is a stupid idea. Refrigerators/freezers are designed to maintain a constant temperature but not when there is a constant load. You stick stuff in your freezer, it freezes, and from that point it just needs to be kept frozen. With a computer the system is constantly generating heat which needs to go somewhere, and the refrigerant pumps in refrigerators/freezers are not designed for constant run-time.Not to mention the condensation... THANKS for the info... going to print this out and try to persuade him into going with a better 6 core CPU and stock air cooling vs overclocking heavily the quadcore as well as inform him that the mineral oil idea is very bad for a liquid cooling pump, and if he doesnt go the route of a better CPU for better performance that he shoudl invest in a higher end air cooled heatsink or a QUALITY liquid cooling kit that you dont have to worry about leaks or pump failing due to quality issues. Quote from: camerongray on July 05, 2015, 07:47:03 AM

That said, basic liquid coolers perform around the same as a high end air cooler, in order to get any benefit with liquid you need to go to a high end custom loop, if he's that worried about leaks, just get an air cooler. There is no reason that a good air cooler won't let you overclock that CPU to very high levels.

Just seconding this hard. You want to keep that Phenom around 60C at max, I've clocked dozens of these to 4GHz (sometimes more) with upper mid range air coolers. They do like the voltage as you clock them higher so temperature can easily become your limiting factor rather than hitting your CPU or motherboard's wall. Fond memories of overclocking my 1055T (admittedly a totally different proposition to the 945) with a Thermalright Silver Arrow and San Ace fan...
Not sure on the price of a 1055T these days, you'll likely see a lower max clock from the 1055T than the 945 so unless his workload is well multithreaded the 945 and a good cooler might be a better proposition than the 1055T especially if the 1055T isn't that cheap. A good cooler can be kept for his next system too.

Solve : Liquid Cooling Quality question?

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