Solve : Need a cheap build thats just as good as PS4?

1.	Solve : Need a cheap build thats just as good as PS4?
Answer» You may want to re-read BC's post... Quote from: Gizmo j on November 16, 2013, 02:15:53 PM BC_Programmer Are you sure? Yes. Quote Because I watched Killzone shadow fall on YouTube and the graphics look AMAZING, it looks lile Crysis 2 on max settings + it runs in 60fps! There is, of course, one major issue with that statement, which is that both the PS4 and XBox One cap their FPS at 30fps. Quote It seems realistic that a 8350+7970 would be necessary to match that performance The problem here is that you are looking at the results and making a lot of assumptions about what they require. One can easily verify my statements about 'Compute Units'- the PS4 and XBox One have significantly less than a mid-range Graphics Card. Quote it seems extremely unlikely that a x4 760k+7870 would do that...but I'll try to do more research on the matter. Would do what? Quote from: BC_Programmer on November 16, 2013, 08:39:03 PM There is, of course, one major issue with that statement, which is that both the PS4 and XBox One cap their FPS at 30fps. In this video it shows that It RUN on 60fps, and Sony stated that in firmware updates the frame rate would get better. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DlAYu_Vs-js Quote from: BC_Programmer on November 16, 2013, 08:39:03 PM Would do what? I doubt that it would match the performance of the PS4, meaning that it would not run the game the same way if killzone was released to PC. Also, in case you never seen how good Killzone shadow fall looks here is a download link of super high bitrate 1080p 60fps of multiplayer. http://blog.us.playstation.com/2013/11/04/killzone-shadow-fall-ultra-high-bitrate-multiplayer-footage/ Quote from: Gizmo j on November 16, 2013, 10:28:32 PM In this video it shows that It run on 60fps, and Sony stated that in firmware updates the frame rate would get better. It "shows" one game running in a certain mode at 24fps (due to youtube), with an overlay added after the fact alleging framerates between 40 and 60- with variations that don't seem to correspond with the ACTION on screen. There is also the problem that this is yet another Journal/magazine/game website that runs entirely off of hype. Their "framerate tools" are not made available anywhere, for all we know they don't even exist- and considering even from that video the "overlay" is clearly a higher resolution than the game (notice how the game has compression artifacts due to the digital capture technology- the overlay, however, is crystal clear, meaning it was added on afterwards. I suppose it's possible the data was recorded and then turned into a video and placed over the original footage, but the fact that the tools they make available are entirely unavailable to anybody means they may as well have not done anything. It's just fodder to feed into their hype cannon. Looking into it more, that seems to be their specialty- they will try to "analyze" footage of games at things like E3 and show that same sort of overlay- forgetting that you cannot measure the framerate after the fact as well as that most such videos will have been captured originally at 24fps meaning that any overlay is just random garbage they made up on the spot. Consider also that this same "company" (Digital Foundry) stated "Killzone: Shadow Fall currently DELIVERS a largely 25-30FPS experience". This new "video" appears to claim that the development company "unlocked" the framerate- except in that previous article they wrote they said the reason for the 25-30 fps was because of the same "forest" shown in that video. It looks more like They are just trying to sell advertising space by attracting people with hype-based nonsense. Anyway, again, that was a single game, in a single mode- and I cannot find any independent verification that it is particularly accurate either. Everything I can find points to the console(s) being limited to 30fps when running at 1080p, with only specific exceptions such as the above for 720p. (the video is most definitely not 1080p since in 1080p there are signs of pixel stretch). Quote I doubt that it would match the performance of the PS4, meaning that it would not run the game the same way if killzone was released to PC. That's a different question altogether. Games that are released on consoles and then ported to the PC need better hardware not because the PC hardware is weaker but because the company assigns their dumbest interns to the Job. Quote Also, in case you never seen how good Killzone shadow fall looks here is a download link of super high bitrate 1080p 60fps of multiplayer. http://blog.us.playstation.com/2013/11/04/killzone-shadow-fall-ultra-high-bitrate-multiplayer-footage/ The Capabilities of a System are not necessarily reflected in what a game looks like. I am honestly not impressed by graphics and this is hardly any different. I do like how all the characters run around as if they crapped their pants, maybe that's an element of the story, I don't know. Maybe the story is that the soldiers are fighting some ALIEN terrorists who invade Earth by playing a brown noise through the entire atmosphere. Though I guess if that was the case it would be called "Operation:Skidmark". But let's stop for a moment. Let's assert that these are in fact amazing graphics. In terms of actual framerate there isn't any real information yet as far as I can tell, so hopefully a third party has or will confirm whether there is or is not a cap. But that still raises the question of why these "amazing graphics" aren't any better than the Graphics you see in games like Just Cause 2. Heck Duke Nukem 3d with the high-res pack looks no worse. And even THEN I still don't see the point. At this point we've reached the point where improving graphics isn't noticable to anybody who doesn't want to see the differences, so maybe it's about time they started to make different games. I'm not much of a game buff myself. You could easily show me that video and say me it's from "Call of Duty" from a few years ago. At some point gaming started to centralize around Games where you run around and shoot people. Almost all of them are indistinguishable at a glance. Only the people that play them for hours and hours would know enough to be able to point to this video and say "see, look! when they are about 30 feet away you can tell they don't slightly change the character model using Level of Detail changes!". buy a Cray XC30. Issue solved http://money.cnn.com/2013/05/07/technology/enterprise/cray-supercomputer/

Answer»

You may want to re-read BC's post... Quote from: Gizmo j on November 16, 2013, 02:15:53 PM

BC_Programmer

Are you sure?

Yes.

Quote

Because I watched Killzone shadow fall on YouTube and the graphics look AMAZING, it looks lile Crysis 2 on max settings + it runs in 60fps!

There is, of course, one major issue with that statement, which is that both the PS4 and XBox One cap their FPS at 30fps.

Quote

It seems realistic that a 8350+7970 would be necessary to match that performance

The problem here is that you are looking at the results and making a lot of assumptions about what they require. One can easily verify my statements about 'Compute Units'- the PS4 and XBox One have significantly less than a mid-range Graphics Card.

Quote

it seems extremely unlikely that a x4 760k+7870 would do that...but I'll try to do more research on the matter.

Would do what? Quote from: BC_Programmer on November 16, 2013, 08:39:03 PM

There is, of course, one major issue with that statement, which is that both the PS4 and XBox One cap their FPS at 30fps.

In this video it shows that It RUN on 60fps, and Sony stated that in firmware updates the frame rate would get better.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DlAYu_Vs-js

Quote from: BC_Programmer on November 16, 2013, 08:39:03 PM

Would do what?

I doubt that it would match the performance of the PS4, meaning that it would not run the game the same way if killzone was released to PC.

Also, in case you never seen how good Killzone shadow fall looks here is a download link of super high bitrate 1080p 60fps of multiplayer.

http://blog.us.playstation.com/2013/11/04/killzone-shadow-fall-ultra-high-bitrate-multiplayer-footage/ Quote from: Gizmo j on November 16, 2013, 10:28:32 PM

In this video it shows that It run on 60fps, and Sony stated that in firmware updates the frame rate would get better.

It "shows" one game running in a certain mode at 24fps (due to youtube), with an overlay added after the fact alleging framerates between 40 and 60- with variations that don't seem to correspond with the ACTION on screen.

There is also the problem that this is yet another Journal/magazine/game website that runs entirely off of hype. Their "framerate tools" are not made available anywhere, for all we know they don't even exist- and considering even from that video the "overlay" is clearly a higher resolution than the game (notice how the game has compression artifacts due to the digital capture technology- the overlay, however, is crystal clear, meaning it was added on afterwards. I suppose it's possible the data was recorded and then turned into a video and placed over the original footage, but the fact that the tools they make available are entirely unavailable to anybody means they may as well have not done anything. It's just fodder to feed into their hype cannon.

Looking into it more, that seems to be their specialty- they will try to "analyze" footage of games at things like E3 and show that same sort of overlay- forgetting that you cannot measure the framerate after the fact as well as that most such videos will have been captured originally at 24fps meaning that any overlay is just random garbage they made up on the spot. Consider also that this same "company" (Digital Foundry) stated "Killzone: Shadow Fall currently DELIVERS a largely 25-30FPS experience". This new "video" appears to claim that the development company "unlocked" the framerate- except in that previous article they wrote they said the reason for the 25-30 fps was because of the same "forest" shown in that video. It looks more like They are just trying to sell advertising space by attracting people with hype-based nonsense.

Anyway, again, that was a single game, in a single mode- and I cannot find any independent verification that it is particularly accurate either.

Everything I can find points to the console(s) being limited to 30fps when running at 1080p, with only specific exceptions such as the above for 720p. (the video is most definitely not 1080p since in 1080p there are signs of pixel stretch).

Quote

I doubt that it would match the performance of the PS4, meaning that it would not run the game the same way if killzone was released to PC.

That's a different question altogether. Games that are released on consoles and then ported to the PC need better hardware not because the PC hardware is weaker but because the company assigns their dumbest interns to the Job.

Quote

Also, in case you never seen how good Killzone shadow fall looks here is a download link of super high bitrate 1080p 60fps of multiplayer.

http://blog.us.playstation.com/2013/11/04/killzone-shadow-fall-ultra-high-bitrate-multiplayer-footage/

The Capabilities of a System are not necessarily reflected in what a game looks like. I am honestly not impressed by graphics and this is hardly any different. I do like how all the characters run around as if they crapped their pants, maybe that's an element of the story, I don't know. Maybe the story is that the soldiers are fighting some ALIEN terrorists who invade Earth by playing a brown noise through the entire atmosphere. Though I guess if that was the case it would be called "Operation:Skidmark".

But let's stop for a moment. Let's assert that these are in fact amazing graphics. In terms of actual framerate there isn't any real information yet as far as I can tell, so hopefully a third party has or will confirm whether there is or is not a cap.

But that still raises the question of why these "amazing graphics" aren't any better than the Graphics you see in games like Just Cause 2. Heck Duke Nukem 3d with the high-res pack looks no worse.

And even THEN I still don't see the point. At this point we've reached the point where improving graphics isn't noticable to anybody who doesn't want to see the differences, so maybe it's about time they started to make different games. I'm not much of a game buff myself. You could easily show me that video and say me it's from "Call of Duty" from a few years ago. At some point gaming started to centralize around Games where you run around and shoot people. Almost all of them are indistinguishable at a glance. Only the people that play them for hours and hours would know enough to be able to point to this video and say "see, look! when they are about 30 feet away you can tell they don't slightly change the character model using Level of Detail changes!".

buy a Cray XC30. Issue solved

http://money.cnn.com/2013/05/07/technology/enterprise/cray-supercomputer/

Solve : Need a cheap build thats just as good as PS4?

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