Solve : Windows or Linux - Let Google and the users Decide?

1.	Solve : Windows or Linux - Let Google and the users Decide?
Answer» I thought it might be interesting to let Google users decide where they faced more problems. Windows .. Linux.. I actually think the results give LARGE data: Linux is still an alien; The problems in Windows are the part of the users' daily life; Very less problems with Linux (we all know); Quote Very less problems with Linux What type of problems are you talking about? What's your point?As we can clearly see from the data, a top "linux" related search is: "Linux is better then windows". This is clearly from Linux zealots looking for like-minded individuals. See, Linux lovers like to argue more about which package management format is better, rather then deal with any issue that can occur in the real world. Quote from: soybean on July 09, 2010, 06:41:37 AM What type of problems are you talking about? What's your point? As evident from the images, more Google searches about Windows were about the problems like hanging during bootup or shutdown problems but Linux were general curiosity. Quote from: Ashutosh32 on July 09, 2010, 06:56:10 AM As evident from the images, googles search suggestion box is hardly "evidence" regardless of wether it's in image format or not. Quote more Google searches about Windows were about the problems like hanging during bootup or shutdown problems but Linux were general curiosity. Search "Linux boot problems": About 6,530,000 results Search "Windows boot problems": About 18,500,000 results. Aside from the obvious skew here given their completely different market share, it's interesting th note that a good portion of the windows hits were in fact articles describing what to do in said case. Whereas the Linux search reveals many queries in forums regarding boot issues in Linux that are either met with silence or "OMFG RTFM NOOB, UPDAT YUR KERNALS" or something equally rude. In particular, the biggest "evidence" is the fact that you are clearly running Linux yourself. And yet, contrariwise, you seem to be implying that you are both presenting and receiving from google a "fair" set of results. People who "hate windows" only do so because it is more popular. I find it curious that people who insist that windows update has driven them over the edge with it's constant updates of huge 53MB files seem to have no problem when Linux updates weigh in at 100 or so megs. It has absolutely nothing to do with empirical data and everything to do with bias against the norm. This is the very same reason so many people CLAIM that "everybody hates the US" and equal disparity A:) No proof of that, it's a meaningless assumption, and B: the only reason people ever claim to hate the US is for reasons that can easily apply to their own countries in some ways. The fact that they are in the spotlight on the world scene makes everything about them more noticable. For example, comments like "HAHA US isn't really democracy it's more like dictatorship lolz" from a user named "ILUV_LENIN". Meanwhile, I cannot think of a single country that fits the "perfect" definition of democracy. I can certainly attest that Canada sometimes doesn't feel as "free" as we are led to believe, but it's certainly amongst the freer nations. Basically, my point is that bias generally goes against the dominant side. In the same fashion, the fact that Windows has become the most prevalent Operating system is the only reason why people pretend to hate it. I say "pretend" because in a large VARIETY of cases, you will often find somebody like "LINUX_RULEZ" join a chatroom, declare that Xchat and linux roolz and windows droolz, and in a curious twist performing a CTCP VERSION on them returns " mIRC v6.35 Khaled Mardam-Bey", and it turns out they are running windows ME. Linux is not necessarily about "overthrowing the machine" or providing a better experience to users, it's simply because they aren't "in the lead". Linux users enjoy downplaying Linux issues and hyperbolizing Windows problems. a minor flaw in a single windows-based program, for example, makes front page news on slashdot, with comments like "THIS IS Y I DON'T UZE WINDOZE"... all the while ignoring the fact that said program's linux port has the same problem. And of course a flaw in a Linux program is the programs fault, not Linux itself. Not sure why that logic never seems to apply to windows. it seems that using the windows API functions in a way not intended to be used and clearly marked in the documentation as being the exact opposite way to do it is the API's fault, not the programs. Or how about the fact that they are constantly saying they had "X" feature first. For example, many Linux users claim that "compozer was around long before aero"... sure, it existed, in a non-usable barely functional form. Then when MS announced Aero suddely it's moved to the front burner and they are all like "YAH, WELL WE'VE HAD IT SINCE 2005". There are so many various open source projects on all sorts of areas that they can claim "we did it first" for nearly everything. But doing something doesn't necessarily mean they do it . Sure, windows has it's problems. But At least power management works. That's more then I can say for any Linux distro I've tried on any machine. Quote googles search suggestion box is hardly "evidence" regardless of wether it's in image format or not It at least suggests the most searched queries. When it comes to Windows problems, I've had my experience (I was using XP) - No NIC drivers and I had no other means to get them on that box. It couldn't run an EXE file which worked correctly under WINE. Once it had its errors, it couldn't even shut down. This was a just installed W(ork)I(s)N(ot)D(one)O(n)W(indow)S XP. BC_Programmer, a good description of the "OS fanboi" mentality. I found this immortal quote... Quote Linux iz da r0xx0r and Windoze iz da sUxx0r Whenever an OS or something adds a new feature, Linux always claims to have added it first. How it works: "OS X renders windows in the GPU now!" "Oh Linux has done that for a few years." "Really?" "Yah, there was a prototype for a plug-in to X11 that never shipped on any Linux distro and crashed every 10 minutes-- but we had it first!" They also have a great way of deflecting any criticism: "Linux doesn't work for me because it doesn't have a good app to do Gantt charts." "Linux isn't an distro! It's just a kernel!" "Well, ok, the Linux kernel doesn't support Sleep MODE on my laptop." "That's the distro's fault!" PS: The said program worked as easily as: Code: [Select]wine /path/to/my/program.exeon my Linux box later on. Quote "Well, ok, the Linux kernel doesn't support Sleep mode on my laptop." "That's the distro's fault!" Sure is. If they don't enable the CORRECT ACPI options in the kernel .config, how can they even expect to have it? Linux is about flexibility rather than having every feature you can imagine. If you need it, you enable it during the config, if you don't you just forget it. Simple. Quote "Linux isn't an distro! It's just a kernel!" True, you build up what you need or just pick one of those according to your taste. Quote Linux always claims to have added it first. Whom do you refer to? Linus Torvalds, a particular member on the community, or did all of us time-sync to yell that together? Quote from: Ashutosh32 on July 09, 2010, 10:27:36 PM Whom do you refer to? Linus Torvalds, a particular member on the community, or did all of us time-sync to yell that together? A particular subset of Linux fanboys advocates, mainly That sounds better. Talk about Windows now, Spend 119.99$ to get Win7, realize that it doesn't support your current hardware and spend 300$ on some hardware that supports it, then spend another 50$ to get the antivirus that the Message Centre or something like that informs, then 10-15$ / 2 months on the tech guy that fixes it once you've screwed it up. And I forget to mention about the regular antivirus scans, disk defrags, etc etc etc which take up your time regularly without fail and the malware etc despite all your efforts. Boot up and general response time can be plotted as a exponential relation against time. And talk about the BUGS? Quote from: Ashutosh32 on July 09, 2010, 10:34:24 PM That sounds better. Talk about Windows now, Spend 119.99$ to get Win7, realize that it doesn't support your current hardware and spend 300$ on some hardware that supports it, then spend another 50$ to get the antivirus that the Message Centre or something like that informs, then 10-15$ / 2 months on the tech guy that fixes it once you've screwed it up. And I forget to mention about the regular antivirus scans, disk defrags, etc etc etc which take up your time regularly without fail and the malware etc despite all your efforts. Boot up and general response time can be plotted as a exponential relation against time. And talk about the BUGS? The only thing there that applies to me is paying for it in the beginning. Quote from: Ashutosh32 on July 09, 2010, 10:34:24 PM That sounds better. Talk about Windows now, Spend 119.99$ to get Win7, realize that it doesn't support your current hardware and spend 300$ on some hardware that supports it, then spend another 50$ to get the antivirus that the Message Centre or something like that informs, then 10-15$ / 2 months on the tech guy that fixes it once you've screwed it up. And I forget to mention about the regular antivirus scans, disk defrags, etc etc etc which take up your time regularly without fail and the malware etc despite all your efforts. Boot up and general response time can be plotted as a exponential relation against time. And talk about the BUGS? That is your experience; it hasn't been mine. I ran XP on my old Shuttle XPC (model ST62K, P4) and when I bought a new one, SN78SH7 (AMD Phenom II 945) I bought W7 Pro 64 bit. I am running Avira Free antivirus, and I do not anticipate spending any money at all on a "tech guy". I take daily image backups (it takes 20 minutes) so if I "screw it up" as you put it, I am up and running very soon. It sounds like you have cherry picked a bunch of bad Windows experiences. And exaggerated. Before I spent 119 English pounds, I did my homework to make sure all of my hardware was supported. In fact when I got the new Shuttle I knew there was no 64 bit driver for my Canon laser printer, so I virtualised my old XP machine and ran it on the new machine in VMWare until Canon released a 64 bit driver 3 weeks later. I take sensible precautions (NoScript on Firefox, antivirus guard, don't run keygens, etc). I don't bother defragging. There is very little point on modern drives/filesystems. Quote I did my homework to make sure all of my hardware was supported. In fact when I got the new Shuttle I knew there was no 64 bit driver for my Canon laser printer, so I virtualised my old XP machine and ran it on the new machine in VMWare until Canon released a 64 bit driver 3 weeks later. I take sensible precautions (NoScript on Firefox, antivirus guard, don't run keygens, etc). I don't bother defragging. There is very little point on modern drives/filesystems. I thought you use the computer but the picture is quite different . You change the CLOTHES when they don't fit, you don't change yourself.

Answer»

I thought it might be interesting to let Google users decide where they faced more problems.

Windows ..

Linux..

I actually think the results give LARGE data:
Linux is still an alien;
The problems in Windows are the part of the users' daily life;
Very less problems with Linux (we all know);

Quote

Very less problems with Linux

What type of problems are you talking about? What's your point?As we can clearly see from the data, a top "linux" related search is:

"Linux is better then windows".

This is clearly from Linux zealots looking for like-minded individuals. See, Linux lovers like to argue more about which package management format is better, rather then deal with any issue that can occur in the real world. Quote from: soybean on July 09, 2010, 06:41:37 AM

What type of problems are you talking about? What's your point?

As evident from the images, more Google searches about Windows were about the problems like hanging during bootup or shutdown problems but Linux were general curiosity. Quote from: Ashutosh32 on July 09, 2010, 06:56:10 AM

As evident from the images,

googles search suggestion box is hardly "evidence" regardless of wether it's in image format or not.

Quote

more Google searches about Windows were about the problems like hanging during bootup or shutdown problems but Linux were general curiosity.

Search "Linux boot problems":

About 6,530,000 results

Search "Windows boot problems":

About 18,500,000 results.

Aside from the obvious skew here given their completely different market share, it's interesting th note that a good portion of the windows hits were in fact articles describing what to do in said case. Whereas the Linux search reveals many queries in forums regarding boot issues in Linux that are either met with silence or "OMFG RTFM NOOB, UPDAT YUR KERNALS" or something equally rude.

In particular, the biggest "evidence" is the fact that you are clearly running Linux yourself. And yet, contrariwise, you seem to be implying that you are both presenting and receiving from google a "fair" set of results.

People who "hate windows" only do so because it is more popular. I find it curious that people who insist that windows update has driven them over the edge with it's constant updates of huge 53MB files seem to have no problem when Linux updates weigh in at 100 or so megs. It has absolutely nothing to do with empirical data and everything to do with bias against the norm.

This is the very same reason so many people CLAIM that "everybody hates the US" and equal disparity A:) No proof of that, it's a meaningless assumption, and B: the only reason people ever claim to hate the US is for reasons that can easily apply to their own countries in some ways. The fact that they are in the spotlight on the world scene makes everything about them more noticable. For example, comments like "HAHA US isn't really democracy it's more like dictatorship lolz" from a user named "ILUV_LENIN". Meanwhile, I cannot think of a single country that fits the "perfect" definition of democracy. I can certainly attest that Canada sometimes doesn't feel as "free" as we are led to believe, but it's certainly amongst the freer nations.

Basically, my point is that bias generally goes against the dominant side.

In the same fashion, the fact that Windows has become the most prevalent Operating system is the only reason why people pretend to hate it. I say "pretend" because in a large VARIETY of cases, you will often find somebody like "LINUX_RULEZ" join a chatroom, declare that Xchat and linux roolz and windows droolz, and in a curious twist performing a CTCP VERSION on them returns " mIRC v6.35 Khaled Mardam-Bey", and it turns out they are running windows ME.

Linux is not necessarily about "overthrowing the machine" or providing a better experience to users, it's simply because they aren't "in the lead".

Linux users enjoy downplaying Linux issues and hyperbolizing Windows problems. a minor flaw in a single windows-based program, for example, makes front page news on slashdot, with comments like "THIS IS Y I DON'T UZE WINDOZE"... all the while ignoring the fact that said program's linux port has the same problem. And of course a flaw in a Linux program is the programs fault, not Linux itself. Not sure why that logic never seems to apply to windows. it seems that using the windows API functions in a way not intended to be used and clearly marked in the documentation as being the exact opposite way to do it is the API's fault, not the programs.

Or how about the fact that they are constantly saying they had "X" feature first. For example, many Linux users claim that "compozer was around long before aero"... sure, it existed, in a non-usable barely functional form. Then when MS announced Aero suddely it's moved to the front burner and they are all like "YAH, WELL WE'VE HAD IT SINCE 2005". There are so many various open source projects on all sorts of areas that they can claim "we did it first" for nearly everything. But doing something doesn't necessarily mean they do it .

Sure, windows has it's problems. But At least power management works. That's more then I can say for any Linux distro I've tried on any machine. Quote

googles search suggestion box is hardly "evidence" regardless of wether it's in image format or not

It at least suggests the most searched queries.

When it comes to Windows problems, I've had my experience (I was using XP) -
No NIC drivers and I had no other means to get them on that box. It couldn't run an EXE file which worked correctly under WINE. Once it had its errors, it couldn't even shut down. This was a just installed W(ork)I(s)N(ot)D(one)O(n)W(indow)S XP.
BC_Programmer, a good description of the "OS fanboi" mentality. I found this immortal quote...

Quote

Linux iz da r0xx0r and Windoze iz da sUxx0r

Whenever an OS or something adds a new feature, Linux always claims to have added it first. How it works:

"OS X renders windows in the GPU now!"

"Oh Linux has done that for a few years." "Really?"

"Yah, there was a prototype for a plug-in to X11 that never shipped on any Linux distro and crashed every 10 minutes-- but we had it first!"

They also have a great way of deflecting any criticism:

"Linux doesn't work for me because it doesn't have a good app to do Gantt charts."

"Linux isn't an distro! It's just a kernel!"

"Well, ok, the Linux kernel doesn't support Sleep MODE on my laptop."

"That's the distro's fault!"

PS: The said program worked as easily as:
Code: [Select]wine /path/to/my/program.exeon my Linux box later on. Quote

"Well, ok, the Linux kernel doesn't support Sleep mode on my laptop."

"That's the distro's fault!"

Sure is. If they don't enable the CORRECT ACPI options in the kernel .config, how can they even expect to have it? Linux is about flexibility rather than having every feature you can imagine. If you need it, you enable it during the config, if you don't you just forget it. Simple.

Quote

"Linux isn't an distro! It's just a kernel!"

True, you build up what you need or just pick one of those according to your taste.

Quote

Linux always claims to have added it first.

Whom do you refer to? Linus Torvalds, a particular member on the community, or did all of us time-sync to yell that together?
Quote from: Ashutosh32 on July 09, 2010, 10:27:36 PM

Whom do you refer to? Linus Torvalds, a particular member on the community, or did all of us time-sync to yell that together?

A particular subset of Linux fanboys advocates, mainly
That sounds better.

Talk about Windows now,

Spend 119.99$ to get Win7, realize that it doesn't support your current hardware and spend 300$ on some hardware that supports it, then spend another 50$ to get the antivirus that the Message Centre or something like that informs, then 10-15$ / 2 months on the tech guy that fixes it once you've screwed it up.

And I forget to mention about the regular antivirus scans, disk defrags, etc etc etc which take up your time regularly without fail and the malware etc despite all your efforts. Boot up and general response time can be plotted as a exponential relation against time.

And talk about the BUGS? Quote from: Ashutosh32 on July 09, 2010, 10:34:24 PM

That sounds better.

Talk about Windows now,

Spend 119.99$ to get Win7, realize that it doesn't support your current hardware and spend 300$ on some hardware that supports it, then spend another 50$ to get the antivirus that the Message Centre or something like that informs, then 10-15$ / 2 months on the tech guy that fixes it once you've screwed it up.

And I forget to mention about the regular antivirus scans, disk defrags, etc etc etc which take up your time regularly without fail and the malware etc despite all your efforts. Boot up and general response time can be plotted as a exponential relation against time.

And talk about the BUGS?

The only thing there that applies to me is paying for it in the beginning. Quote from: Ashutosh32 on July 09, 2010, 10:34:24 PM

That sounds better.

Talk about Windows now,

Spend 119.99$ to get Win7, realize that it doesn't support your current hardware and spend 300$ on some hardware that supports it, then spend another 50$ to get the antivirus that the Message Centre or something like that informs, then 10-15$ / 2 months on the tech guy that fixes it once you've screwed it up.

And I forget to mention about the regular antivirus scans, disk defrags, etc etc etc which take up your time regularly without fail and the malware etc despite all your efforts. Boot up and general response time can be plotted as a exponential relation against time.

And talk about the BUGS?

That is your experience; it hasn't been mine. I ran XP on my old Shuttle XPC (model ST62K, P4) and when I bought a new one, SN78SH7 (AMD Phenom II 945) I bought W7 Pro 64 bit. I am running Avira Free antivirus, and I do not anticipate spending any money at all on a "tech guy". I take daily image backups (it takes 20 minutes) so if I "screw it up" as you put it, I am up and running very soon. It sounds like you have cherry picked a bunch of bad Windows experiences. And exaggerated. Before I spent 119 English pounds, I did my homework to make sure all of my hardware was supported. In fact when I got the new Shuttle I knew there was no 64 bit driver for my Canon laser printer, so I virtualised my old XP machine and ran it on the new machine in VMWare until Canon released a 64 bit driver 3 weeks later. I take sensible precautions (NoScript on Firefox, antivirus guard, don't run keygens, etc). I don't bother defragging. There is very little point on modern drives/filesystems.
Quote

I did my homework to make sure all of my hardware was supported. In fact when I got the new Shuttle I knew there was no 64 bit driver for my Canon laser printer, so I virtualised my old XP machine and ran it on the new machine in VMWare until Canon released a 64 bit driver 3 weeks later. I take sensible precautions (NoScript on Firefox, antivirus guard, don't run keygens, etc). I don't bother defragging. There is very little point on modern drives/filesystems.

I thought you use the computer but the picture is quite different . You change the CLOTHES when they don't fit, you don't change yourself.

Solve : Windows or Linux - Let Google and the users Decide?

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