Solve : Installing XP under unusual circumstances?

1.	Solve : Installing XP under unusual circumstances?
Answer» I didn't know whether to post this as a vita question or an xp question since it involves both. I have vista installed on my C: drive, and on my D: drive I have XP installed (both are part of the same physical hard drive). Here is what I want to to: Remove Vista from the C: drive and install a later version of XP onto the C: drive to replace it. It is important that I do this without destroying my ability to boot to the D: drive or my information on the D: drive. Remember that they are all the same physical drive. I tried to find an answer to this online but all I could find were instructions on how to do it if vista was NOT installed in your C:drive. Unfortunately mine is. What can I do? Any help would be appreciated. Thanks, PopinjaySince Vista uses a different bootloader than XP i'm afraid this may not even be possible... Quote Here is what I want to to: Remove Vista from the C: drive and install a later version of XP onto the C: drive to replace it Please let me tell you this is not a good idea. Why do you want to do this? I have had XP installed all over the place on hard drives. It works fine on any partition. I don't know of any strong reason to move it. Now, having said that, here is a article you may want to read: http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/library/cc721886(WS.10).aspx Here is what this means in nutshell. You can not use the popular partition manager programs to copy and/or move around partitions while the boot system was created my Vista or Windows 7. You will crash the boot loader. I am new to Windows 7 and found the only way I can wok partitions around is to wipe out the Windows 7 installation and then repair the boot loader with the Windows XP install CD. This has a measure of risk. I had a backup plan. I then had to re-install Windows 7 and it now works, but the boot loader has a double reference to Windows 7. I can not edit it as a text file, as PER the link above states. Now my XP is C: and windows 7 is E: and I am not going to TRY and change anything. It took me a week to get it to this point. And required the use of two computers and four hard drives. I don't want to do that again and I would NEVER recommend it to anyone. So, IMO, just be happy you have a dual boot system that works. Quote from: patio on October 03, 2009, 12:26:35 AM Since Vista uses a different bootloader than XP i'm afraid this may not even be possible... Is it not possible to format the C: partition then install the newer version of XP in that partition? Setup would create a new bootloader for the version of XP on C: then the Boot.ini file could be edited to give the dual boot options for C: and D: if Setup doesn't automatically do that.No because the 2nd install...no matter what flavor of Windows it is needs to write certain system files to the root of C: for it to run properly.... This is why when you setup a dual-boot machine the older OS is always installed first to the C: partition with the 2nd install after the first is in place and working. Trust me...i've been down this road many times. Quote from: Dusty on October 03, 2009, 03:19:38 AM Is it not possible to format the C: partition then install the newer version of XP in that partition? Setup would create a new bootloader for the version of XP on C: then the Boot.ini file could be edited to give the dual boot options for C: and D: if Setup doesn't automatically do that. I'm with Dusty on this one. It should be fine if you format C: (full format) from a Windows XP operating system so its Partition Boot Record (which looks for NTLDR boot manager) is written to the partition. Should be able to do this either from Windows XP install CD or EXISTING Windows XP on D:. Verify current C: partition is the "active" primary partition. Can use Disk Management to do this. It should have "System" attribute in the graphic display. You must be careful to ensure new installation goes to C: partition. I think there's a small "Advanced Options" link (lower right of some paragraph) in one of the early setup screens that permits you to select device and directory to install to. Trust No One. Backup your data before attempting this. Reference: A Guide to the Multiboot Process. Quote from: Patio Trust me... Always, unswervingly, but.... I just had to set up a trial and here's what I did. All install disks are genuine originals or slipstreamed versions produced from genuine versions. 1. Partitioned a hdd and formatted partition D: and installed using Win XP Home SP.1 - reboot. 2. From Cmd.exe formatted partition C:. Installed Windows XP Home SP.3 on partition C:. Noted that Setup referred to D: as being C:. Reboot. 3. NTLDR displayed the multi-boot partition info from Boot.ini with the default being XP Home SP.3 - as expected, the last system installed. At this point the system is setup similar to the OP's apart from the OP having Vista on partition C: 4. Booted to XP Home SP.1 located on D: and formatted partition C: 5. Rebooted and installed Win XP Pro SP.3 on partition C: 6. On reboot NTLDR displayed the multi-boot partition info from Boot.ini with XP Pro as default as expected. Partition(1) is shown as containing XP SP.1 with XP Pro on partition(2), the reverse of what was expected but not a problem. My conclusion: Setup will automatically create a multi-boot environment. Apart from the slight confusion with drive letter and partition number allocations when booting into the system on C: the method is viable. After deleting Boot.ini the advisory message showed that the system would be booted to C:\Windows but booted to Win XP SP.1 which theoretically is installed in partition D: But here's the flaw between your method and what he needs to do... When you did the first install of Home to the D: drive the neccessary files for proper operation and dual-boot status were written to the root of the C: drive as they normally would be. Then you installed to C: and again certain files get written to the root of C:..... Presto...it works. However in his scenario he is looking to wipe C: and do a clean install....those files would then be wiped and all the root would contain is the files to boot C: No amount of editing the boot ini will correct this. To test this leave D: intact...wipe your C: install and re-install to C:. Then try and dual -boot. Quote from: patio on October 04, 2009, 06:24:16 AM But here's the flaw between your method and what he needs to do... However in his scenario he is looking to wipe C: and do a clean install....those files would then be wiped and all the root would contain is the files to boot C: To test this leave D: intact...wipe your C: install and re-install to C:. Then try and dual -boot. Was this not covered in my post? Quote from: Dusty At this point the system is setup similar to the OP's apart from the OP having Vista on partition C: 4. Booted to XP Home SP.1 located on D: and formatted partition C: 5. Rebooted and installed Win XP Pro SP.3 on partition C: Quote Booted to XP Home SP.1 located on D: and formatted partition C: But this will not remove the root of C: from within Windows... This is also by design.Okay, I go along with that but when you posted Quote To test this leave D: intact...wipe your C: install and re-install to C:. Then try and dual -boot. what did you intend by wipe? Is that not what the OP wants to do, format (wipe) C: and install a later version of XP on C: leaving D: intact and bootable which seems to me to be what has been achieved. What am I missing? Will the Vista bootloader not be overwritten if Vista is removed and a clean install of XP on C: drive is completed? Quote Is that not what the OP wants to do, format (wipe) C: and install a later version of XP on C: leaving D: intact and bootable which seems to me to be what has been achieved. No disrespect Dusty. The OP has limited experience in this. Just doing a new install on the C: partition is NOT going to leave the D: partition intact and bookable. TRUST US. He has to make an image of the D: partition to another local Drive or or a network drive.The primary boot drive always get's written to with any OS install. Wether this is a partition, a separate drive, etc, it won't matter. If however one was to install windows onto C:, and then change the BIOS boot order to place D:\ (perhaps a slave hard drive) at a higher priority, then that drive will be regarded as the main system drive. At the same time, the issue is limited to the change between the boot methods between Vista and XP: obviously no amount of hacking about with boot.ini can get NTLDR to load a Vista partition; however, in the OP's case, I believe it would work. After clearing out C:\ and installing XP, the C:\ drive now has had the Vista boot loader replaced with the standard NTLDR and boot.ini combination. in addition, the XP installer will have discovered the XP install on D:\, and added a appropriate entry into boot.ini for it. Quote After clearing out C:\ and installing XP, the C:\ drive now has had the Vista boot loader replaced with the standard NTLDR and boot.ini combination. in addition, the XP installer will have discovered the XP install on D:\, and added a appropriate entry into boot.ini for it. From his post it is not certain which is the "C" drive and which is the D" drive. We are not sure how XP got to be the D drive. It may already be the first primary drive in the system and got badlyis cast as D. He did not make it clear how it got that way. If he did it, then why does he want to change it? An issue maybe like this was mentioned in the MS KB. If he formats the wrong drive, he will lose his data. Quote from: Geek Just doing a new install on the C: partition is NOT going to leave the D: partition intact and bookable. TRUST US C'mon Geek, justify that statement. Why will the D: partition not be intact, are you suggesting that an install on C: will somehow cripple D:? As for leaving D: bootable, D: already has XP installed so all that's required is to have the ability to point to it. This is done by the installer when a second version of XP is installed on C: and an updated Boot.ini file is written. As the MBR is outside C: the Partition Table remains unchanged when any partition is formatted. Sure I'll trust you but please give some sort of proof for your statements. Quote from: BC_P After clearing out C:\ and installing XP, the C:\ drive now has had the Vista boot loader replaced with the standard NTLDR and boot.ini combination. in addition, the XP installer will have discovered the XP install on D:\, and added a appropriate entry into boot.ini for it. Thank you BC_P. That's exactly the situation I found and can confirm that during the install on C: the Boot.ini file was amended to muilti-boot C: and D: As another test I installed Ubuntu on C: and XP on D: then formatted C: and installed another version of XP, the same thing, multi-boot success.

Answer»

I didn't know whether to post this as a vita question or an xp question since it involves both.

I have vista installed on my C: drive, and on my D: drive I have XP installed (both are part of the same physical hard drive).

Here is what I want to to:

Remove Vista from the C: drive and install a later version of XP onto the C: drive to replace it. It is important that I do this without destroying my ability to boot to the D: drive or my information on the D: drive. Remember that they are all the same physical drive.

I tried to find an answer to this online but all I could find were instructions on how to do it if vista was NOT installed in your C:drive. Unfortunately mine is.

What can I do?

Any help would be appreciated.

Thanks,

PopinjaySince Vista uses a different bootloader than XP i'm afraid this may not even be possible...
Quote

Here is what I want to to:
Remove Vista from the C: drive and install a later version of XP onto the C: drive to replace it

Please let me tell you this is not a good idea.
Why do you want to do this?
I have had XP installed all over the place on hard drives. It works fine on any partition. I don't know of any strong reason to move it.

Now, having said that, here is a article you may want to read:
http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/library/cc721886(WS.10).aspx

Here is what this means in nutshell. You can not use the popular partition manager programs to copy and/or move around partitions while the boot system was created my Vista or Windows 7. You will crash the boot loader.

I am new to Windows 7 and found the only way I can wok partitions around is to wipe out the Windows 7 installation and then repair the boot loader with the Windows XP install CD. This has a measure of risk. I had a backup plan.
I then had to re-install Windows 7 and it now works, but the boot loader has a double reference to Windows 7. I can not edit it as a text file, as PER the link above states.

Now my XP is C: and windows 7 is E: and I am not going to TRY and change anything. It took me a week to get it to this point. And required the use of two computers and four hard drives. I don't want to do that again and I would NEVER recommend it to anyone.
So, IMO, just be happy you have a dual boot system that works. Quote from: patio on October 03, 2009, 12:26:35 AM

Since Vista uses a different bootloader than XP i'm afraid this may not even be possible...

Is it not possible to format the C: partition then install the newer version of XP in that partition? Setup would create a new bootloader for the version of XP on C: then the Boot.ini file could be edited to give the dual boot options for C: and D: if Setup doesn't automatically do that.No because the 2nd install...no matter what flavor of Windows it is needs to write certain system files to the root of C: for it to run properly....

This is why when you setup a dual-boot machine the older OS is always installed first to the C: partition with the 2nd install after the first is in place and working.

Trust me...i've been down this road many times. Quote from: Dusty on October 03, 2009, 03:19:38 AM

Is it not possible to format the C: partition then install the newer version of XP in that partition? Setup would create a new bootloader for the version of XP on C: then the Boot.ini file could be edited to give the dual boot options for C: and D: if Setup doesn't automatically do that.

I'm with Dusty on this one. It should be fine if you format C: (full format) from a Windows XP operating system so its Partition Boot Record (which looks for NTLDR boot manager) is written to the partition. Should be able to do this either from Windows XP install CD or EXISTING Windows XP on D:.

Verify current C: partition is the "active" primary partition. Can use Disk Management to do this. It should have "System" attribute in the graphic display.

You must be careful to ensure new installation goes to C: partition. I think there's a small "Advanced Options" link (lower right of some paragraph) in one of the early setup screens that permits you to select device and directory to install to.

Trust No One. Backup your data before attempting this.

Reference: A Guide to the Multiboot Process. Quote from: Patio

Trust me...

Always, unswervingly, but.... I just had to set up a trial and here's what I did. All install disks are genuine originals or slipstreamed versions produced from genuine versions.

1. Partitioned a hdd and formatted partition D: and installed using Win XP Home SP.1 - reboot.

2. From Cmd.exe formatted partition C:. Installed Windows XP Home SP.3 on partition C:. Noted that Setup referred to D: as being C:. Reboot.

3. NTLDR displayed the multi-boot partition info from Boot.ini with the default being XP Home SP.3 - as expected, the last system installed.

At this point the system is setup similar to the OP's apart from the OP having Vista on partition C:

4. Booted to XP Home SP.1 located on D: and formatted partition C:

5. Rebooted and installed Win XP Pro SP.3 on partition C:

6. On reboot NTLDR displayed the multi-boot partition info from Boot.ini with XP Pro as default as expected. Partition(1) is shown as containing XP SP.1 with XP Pro on partition(2), the reverse of what was expected but not a problem.

My conclusion: Setup will automatically create a multi-boot environment. Apart from the slight confusion with drive letter and partition number allocations when booting into the system on C: the method is viable. After deleting Boot.ini the advisory message showed that the system would be booted to C:\Windows but booted to Win XP SP.1 which theoretically is installed in partition D:

But here's the flaw between your method and what he needs to do...

When you did the first install of Home to the D: drive the neccessary files for proper operation and dual-boot status were written to the root of the C: drive as they normally would be.
Then you installed to C: and again certain files get written to the root of C:.....

Presto...it works.

However in his scenario he is looking to wipe C: and do a clean install....those files would then be wiped and all the root would contain is the files to boot C:

No amount of editing the boot ini will correct this.

To test this leave D: intact...wipe your C: install and re-install to C:.
Then try and dual -boot. Quote from: patio on October 04, 2009, 06:24:16 AM

But here's the flaw between your method and what he needs to do...

However in his scenario he is looking to wipe C: and do a clean install....those files would then be wiped and all the root would contain is the files to boot C:

To test this leave D: intact...wipe your C: install and re-install to C:.
Then try and dual -boot.

Was this not covered in my post?
Quote from: Dusty

At this point the system is setup similar to the OP's apart from the OP having Vista on partition C:

4. Booted to XP Home SP.1 located on D: and formatted partition C:

5. Rebooted and installed Win XP Pro SP.3 on partition C:

Quote

Booted to XP Home SP.1 located on D: and formatted partition C:

But this will not remove the root of C: from within Windows...
This is also by design.Okay, I go along with that but when you posted Quote

To test this leave D: intact...wipe your C: install and re-install to C:.
Then try and dual -boot.

what did you intend by wipe?

Is that not what the OP wants to do, format (wipe) C: and install a later version of XP on C: leaving D: intact and bootable which seems to me to be what has been achieved.

What am I missing? Will the Vista bootloader not be overwritten if Vista is removed and a clean install of XP on C: drive is completed?

Quote

Is that not what the OP wants to do, format (wipe) C: and install a later version of XP on C: leaving D: intact and bootable which seems to me to be what has been achieved.

No disrespect Dusty. The OP has limited experience in this. Just doing a new install on the C: partition is NOT going to leave the D: partition intact and bookable. TRUST US.

He has to make an image of the D: partition to another local Drive or or a network drive.The primary boot drive always get's written to with any OS install. Wether this is a partition, a separate drive, etc, it won't matter.

If however one was to install windows onto C:, and then change the BIOS boot order to place D:\ (perhaps a slave hard drive) at a higher priority, then that drive will be regarded as the main system drive.

At the same time, the issue is limited to the change between the boot methods between Vista and XP: obviously no amount of hacking about with boot.ini can get NTLDR to load a Vista partition; however, in the OP's case, I believe it would work.

After clearing out C:\ and installing XP, the C:\ drive now has had the Vista boot loader replaced with the standard NTLDR and boot.ini combination. in addition, the XP installer will have discovered the XP install on D:\, and added a appropriate entry into boot.ini for it. Quote

After clearing out C:\ and installing XP, the C:\ drive now has had the Vista boot loader replaced with the standard NTLDR and boot.ini combination. in addition, the XP installer will have discovered the XP install on D:\, and added a appropriate entry into boot.ini for it.

From his post it is not certain which is the "C" drive and which is the D" drive. We are not sure how XP got to be the D drive. It may already be the first primary drive in the system and got badlyis cast as D. He did not make it clear how it got that way. If he did it, then why does he want to change it?

An issue maybe like this was mentioned in the MS KB.

If he formats the wrong drive, he will lose his data. Quote from: Geek

Just doing a new install on the C: partition is NOT going to leave the D: partition intact and bookable. TRUST US

C'mon Geek, justify that statement. Why will the D: partition not be intact, are you suggesting that an install on C: will somehow cripple D:? As for leaving D: bootable, D: already has XP installed so all that's required is to have the ability to point to it. This is done by the installer when a second version of XP is installed on C: and an updated Boot.ini file is written. As the MBR is outside C: the Partition Table remains unchanged when any partition is formatted. Sure I'll trust you but please give some sort of proof for your statements.

Quote from: BC_P

After clearing out C:\ and installing XP, the C:\ drive now has had the Vista boot loader replaced with the standard NTLDR and boot.ini combination. in addition, the XP installer will have discovered the XP install on D:\, and added a appropriate entry into boot.ini for it.

Thank you BC_P. That's exactly the situation I found and can confirm that during the install on C: the Boot.ini file was amended to muilti-boot C: and D: As another test I installed Ubuntu on C: and XP on D: then formatted C: and installed another version of XP, the same thing, multi-boot success.

Solve : Installing XP under unusual circumstances?

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