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Solve : My Computer Seems to be Worn Out, but is it Really?? |
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Answer» Quote Instead of these three steps, I would recommend following the CH guide found here, and then posting the logs for a malware specialist. Chances are with their help you can get your PC back in tip-top shape without a reinstall. I just do not understand and can not readily accept that a virus that Malwarebytes (and disabling an obscure, apparently unneeded "hidden device") seemingly removed can still be around after 50 days of roughly normal use. Just so you know, this was a massive, classic virus, including a Google search hijack and a list of addresses that you could not browse to, consisting of, you guessed it, all of the popular security sites. But those symptoms have not reappeared in the last 50 days of relatively good operating, and nor have they reappeared in the present as my operating system has all but shut down. Yet now the Malwarebytes has detected two more files showing infection from the same virus, 50 days after it supposedly got them all. Meanwhile, the Avira antivirus program has totally struck out on this, never detecting anything either 50 days ago or now, which, considering this virus is at least 6 months old according to what I saw on a forum, is either really embarrassing for Avira or yet more evidence that you are not going to win the war against viruses in the long run. There seems to be an awkward disagreement among computer users about whether it is more productinve and efficient to actively fight viruses or to simply do complete recoveries on a regular basis. I as a newbie have had an open mind on the subject, but now I think I am ready to decide in favor of the regular recoveries. I have a substantial amount of evidence that antivirus programs fail on a regular basis to detect viruses, that they fail to completely remove viruses, and that even if they seemingly remove them they somehow come back anyway. To me, fighting viruses in the trenches just seems to be unproductive and inefficient compared with learning how to do "destructive" recoveries in a way that minimizes the disruption to your computer work. And then you have the spontaneously developed operating system errors which grow and grow over time and become more and more annoying. If you could get used to doing recoveries with minimal disruption, you could actually make a case that regularly scheduled recoveries would be nice to do even if viruses did not exist, nice to do in other words just to clear up the errors A destructive recovery takes about an hour and it is supposed to zap out of existence virtually all viruses, and to correct all system errors, and that is music to my ears at this point. I think am going to learn to live with the disadvantages of these recoveries once and for all, so I can get the big advantages. Therefore, my policy as of now and going forward will be to plan on recoveries every 10,000 hours of computer use, EARLIER in the event of a severe virus infestation that is not quickly and permanently cleaned up. Also, it would be earlier than 10,000 hours if system errors due to spontaneous actions and due to any viruses have been substantially worse than they were at the 10,000 hour point for my current computer. (How the experience with my current computer went will be considered a baseline for these evaluations. My experience with the old computer was a joke, laugh out loud.) Quote A Windows XP System Restore would essentially undo all the changes you made- including uninstalling programs and the malware scans- really it should be a first stop measure to perform when you still have checkpoints (saved system states) from before infections/problems, now, the location the checkpoints are stored is significant to answering number 5: Well although the January 31 virus apparently destroyed all System Restore points prior to that date, I checked and I still have all FEBRUARY and March restore points available. If I choose any from before my OS stopped working, I could theoretically solve the immediate problem. But again, the whole OS thing just seems to be a game where no matter how many battles you win, you lose the war so, at this point I am preparing to do a recovery, and if I do attempt a restore before a recovery, it will be out of curiosity, and it will probably be at most just a temporary fix and mean just a temporary postponement of the recovery. Thanks for that very good introduction to manual removal of viruses, especially since it calms me down a little about the seeming failure of antivirus programs: I can see what they are up against, a lot of stunts and tricks that unfortunately, the low-level programmers can think of. We did mention and emphasize how they are at the bottom of the barrell, didn't we? Quote How does one go about cleaning a winlogon notify infection? Unfortunately, barring the use of popular anti-malware applications (which generally work), one would need to drop to the Windows Recovery console via the use of the retail Windows CD, whereby they can delete the infectious files all at once, reboot, and delete the keys. Problem solved. IMPORTANT QUESTION; Can I deduce from this that if you have a retail Windows CD you can remove viruses from your computer that any number of antivirus programs have failed at removing? ANOTHER VERY IMPORTANT QUESTION: If you buy a Windows OS retail CD, how many computers can you use it in?? Quote Your older one as you say may provide some clues as to a possible method of recovery- for example wether it tries to, but fails to load windows, wether a safe-mode boot might work, or wether the bootup files are completely hooped (which, come to think of it might be remedied by using the appropriate boot-up files from your newer PC, which you will have fixed up before digging into the old one. Of course this is all speculation since we have yet to determine exactly what the issue your old computer is having is. Thanks especially much for this extremely valuable information regarding the old computer. As I said, I'm doing the new one first and then the old one. I had a little "breakthrough" on the new one last night. Using Windows, I have been unable for many months to get my DVD/CD reader/writer to recognize fresh DVD+ data discs. I more or less of forgot that I had Sonic Digital Media Plus preinstalled, which I almost never used. But since I am spending a very large amount of time on all of this, I stumbled on Sonic and loaded it and, sure enough, if I use Sonic, my empty discs are recognized and I can burn data discs. This breakthrough allows me to do a better backup than I could have done otherwise, but of course is taking up more time, especially since my OS is only working roughly 2 out of every 25 seconds. (Must be nice work if you can get it, laugh out loud.) Anyway, while taking a break from working on the new computer, I fired up the old tower (with nothing hooked up to it) in order to see if there is a recovery disc or not still sitting in the DVD/CD reader/writer and also, to see if it is still making the same healthy signs it made when it was working good. The good news is that the old computer is sounding the same as it did when it was up and running well, with no worrisome sounds at all, and you do in fact get that power up beep. So I continue to believe that the state of this computer, roughly speaking, is: totally hosed operating system, totally hosed boot up system, but good mechanically which, according to the information I have been getting, means it can be recovered. But there is bad news: the CD/DVD drive tray will not open! It won't open with the power off when I press the button. It won't open with the power on when I press the button either. You hear two clicks about 3 seconds apart when you try to open the tray when the power is on. I did a Google and on some of them there is a pin hole which with a paper clip you are supposed to be able to manually open, but there doesn't seem to be a pin hole on mine. Nor does it seem to be possible to force the tray open without breaking it. So my QUESTION is regarding how bad this news is... How bad a sign is it that the tray will not open? Is it supposed to open when the computer is powered down? Is it supposed to refuse to open when the power is on but when there is nothing at all hooked up to the computer? Would it open if a monitor, keyborad, and mouse were cabled to the tower? Assuming this is a fairly major problem, is it possible to use a portable disc drive connected via USB to do a system recovery on a computer? your overthinking things. Regarding AV programs I haven't usd one in years myself- (by which I mean, say, one running in the background). This install of Windows XP that I'm running on right now is about 6 months old- but I reformatted simply to change my drive partitions a bit, not because of malware issues or whatnot. Also, my old PC, which I still have but is kind of gutted right now, I had running over 5 years with a single install of windows XP that was installed over windows 98SE; aside from a few malware issues that I promptly noticed (it was a slow machine so any malware was pretty evident) and removed. Also, the very first thing I did when I got my laptop, after being forced to basically run through the Recovery to get it setup initiallly, was a complete reformat. The laptop, even though it was a dual core and much faster then my desktop, was very slow. All the crap Toshiba decided I wanted took a toll, so I started off with a clean reformat, installed all the drivers and so forth, and now it runs blazingly fast. This would be my only argument against a "recovery disk", since I can't stand having programs preinstalled for me, and prefer to install me own. Quote
technically the errors aren't spontaneous, and appear in part due to user actions- but usually innocently, via the installation and removal of programs, some of which don't properly clean up their registry entries, which end up confusing later installations of other programs into making false assumptions, etc etc. A Virus, as I'm sure your aware, is simply a program. The PC needs to be instructed to execute the virus- thus the RUN keys I describe in my previous post being manipulated. What you might have is simply some infected files sitting on the disk, perhaps you hadn't done a scan in the intervening time, but either way since you weren't experiencing symptoms chances are it was just a few random files that were harmful but not active. Even so, it's not to difficult to clean it up, with various tools (free tools, of course). and a little extra time- just a few "deep scans" in a few anti-malware type apps. Quote IMPORTANT QUESTION; That depends on experience- it requires one to identify the exact files that need to be deleted- all of them usually need to be deleted at once, or else what's left rebuilds the set. (it's kind of like those bosses in old games, where you have to strike hard and fast or else they regenerate ). For me, I use an excellent program called Process Explorer, whereby in the event of a known infection I can find running programs and loaded DLL's that I know shouldn't be loaded, write them down, reboot into recovery console (which I have installed on my HD for quick access), and delete them. I've only had to do this once, for a virus that was completely undetected by any anti-malware app, but it is definitely a useful way of removing viruses. I wouldn't say it's particularly hard, once you've got the filenames, but it does require using the command line, and not everybody is comfortable there. Quote ANOTHER VERY IMPORTANT QUESTION: Quote If you buy a Windows OS retail CD, how many computers can you use it in?? well, your allowed to install it onto one PC. However, you can use the "repair" option or recovery console on any XP PC you want. Quote I had a little "breakthrough" on the new one last night. Using Windows, I have been unable for many months to get my DVD/CD reader/writer to recognize fresh DVD+ data discs. I more or less of forgot that I had Sonic Digital Media Plus preinstalled, which I almost never used. But since I am spending a very large amount of time on all of this, I stumbled on Sonic and loaded it and, sure enough, if I use Sonic, my empty discs are recognized and I can burn data discs. Actually- this is simply because the windows built-in burning for XP doesn't recognize DVDs. Quote Thanks for that very good introduction to manual removal of viruses, especially since it calms me down a little about the seeming failure of antivirus programs: I can see what they are up against, a lot of stunts and tricks that unfortunately, the low-level programmers can think of. We did mention and emphasize how they are at the bottom of the barrell, didn't we? there are some "brilliant" malware authors, but really I cannot myself respect them for what they do. I mean- after all- what if their programs infect a life-supporting network/PC, such as in a hospital? They could easily kill somebody with their mindless pranks. basically, the way I see it is, that a malware programmer either has something to prove (MS won't hire me- HP won't hire me... I'll show them... I'll show them ALL!), or has unscrupulous financial incentives (adware payloads). Thankfully for us most of them fall in the former category, and their released malware usually proves why they weren't hired. I mean seriously, I have to keep calling the virus tech support! Quote Me: yeah, I got this message about your virus, saying something about not being able to delete my files heh, just kidding of course As far as the old tower and it's CD drive issues, it could just need some more time to open- even in the case it doesn't work it's a cheap replacement (usually ~25$), or perhaps a power supply issue- or even just a loose power plug... Oh and it isn't supposed to open when the PCs off- since the motors to open need power silly Quote Regarding AV programs I haven't usd one in years myself- (by which I mean, say, one running in the background). Yes, see that's part of my "big picture" point, that non-technical, newer uses such as me are fooled into thinking that antivirus programs will most likely keep your system up and running indefinitely, when the truth is they won't, and the truth is that the knowledge that people like you have and the techniques that people like you use are what really is necessary to keep a system up and running. It seems that by default, for less experienced but heavy computer users, the best and one of the only good ways to keep a computer up and running for as long as it mechanically can is to plan on regular "destructive" recoveries which are not really destructive in the case of such a user. Quote This install of Windows XP that I'm running on right now is about 6 months old- but I reformatted simply to change my drive partitions a bit, not because of malware issues or whatnot. Also, my old PC, which I still have but is kind of gutted right now, I had running over 5 years with a single install of windows XP that was installed over windows 98SE; aside from a few malware issues that I promptly noticed (it was a slow machine so any malware was pretty evident) and removed. I'm thinking you removed the evident malware largely by removing registry keys and disabling start-up processes? Quote Also, the very first thing I did when I got my laptop, after being forced to basically run through the Recovery to get it setup initiallly, was a complete reformat. The laptop, even though it was a dual core and much faster then my desktop, was very slow. All the crap Toshiba decided I wanted took a toll, so I started off with a clean reformat, installed all the drivers and so forth, and now it runs blazingly fast. The manufacturers or at least the sellers such as Tiger Direct should at a bare minimum offer the computer buyer the option to pick up a Windows OS disc at a discount (to go along with any recovery disc) at the time of a computer purchase. The whole computer buying experience seems to be geared only toward the lighter to moderate users, while the heavy users are like lambs in the lion's den, or cattle being led to slaughter, laugh out loud. Quote technically the errors aren't spontaneous, and appear in part due to user actions- but usually innocently, via the installation and removal of programs, some of which don't properly clean up their registry entries, which end up confusing later installations of other programs into making false assumptions, etc etc. And this means that any really heavy computer user will generate many more errors per hour of use than will a lighter user. It never ceases to amaze me how, even among regular visitors to my web sites, very few people exit via links to "satellite pages" and to other nice sites of mine. Whereas, I by contrast, when I am surfing, am constantly exploring promising links. People who click a lot of links, who are surprisingly rare, are the ones who are going to have to do scheduled recoveries, whereas maybe those who have the appetite of birds when they are surfing can perhaps get away without scheduling them. Quote A Virus, as I'm sure your aware, is simply a program. The PC needs to be instructed to execute the virus- thus the RUN keys I describe in my previous post being manipulated. What you might have is simply some infected files sitting on the disk, perhaps you hadn't done a scan in the intervening time, but either way since you weren't experiencing symptoms chances are it was just a few random files that were harmful but not active. It seems that even when viruses are "removed," by the antivirus programs, they are sometimes (often?) never completely removed and, although they may not completely reconstitute themselves, these remnants of the original virus somehow manage to damage your operating system anyway in ensuing weeks and months. Either that or I have other, hidden viruses none of my antivirus programs know about. Or by SHEER coincidence, my operating system is spontaneously self-destructing shortly after major viruses are encountered and seemingly removed. Quote well, your allowed to install it onto one PC. However, you can use the "repair" option or recovery console on any XP PC you want. OK now I am getting a little confused again. Are you saying that a Windows retail CD actually can be used for three major tasks, which would be: (a) install the Windows OS (b) repair option and (c) recovery console? After answering this, would you please explain what the repair option and, assuming it is different, what the recovery console utility is for? As you will see shortly, it looks like I have boxed myself into a corner where I have to use such a CD on the old computer whether I want to or not. Quote Actually- this is simply because the windows built-in burning for XP doesn't recognize DVDs. Wow, I thought this was the 21st century, laugh out loud. Quote As far as the old tower and it's CD drive issues, it could just need some more time to open- even in the case it doesn't work it's a cheap replacement (usually ~25$), or perhaps a power supply issue- or even just a loose power plug... You were exactly right. I turned the old one on again with a plan to keep trying to open the tray all day and all evening long if necessary. I alternated between pressing the button normally and holding it in for minutes at a time. Eventually, on roughly the 40th try, after about 40 minutes, it did open. And there it was: a disc!. So then, I somehow got past the defenses and got to talk with a technician at Systemax, the manufacturer of the old computer. They cleared up a huge confusion about whether I had used the correct disc to attempt the recovery. It turns out I did in fact have the correct recovery disc. And I did in fact initiate recovery in the correct way. I tried several dozen times in fact, believe it or not, and each attempt to recovery failed. This technician believes that my system was so extremely corrupted and out of control that, although it still recognized the recovery disc, presented the graphics for initiating the recovery, and attempted to perform the recovery, the recovery could not be accomplished. He said that having the recovery partition on the same disc as the working operating system is theoretically risky, though in practice it is rare for someone to have corruption so bad that the recovery partition can not be accessed and/or the recovery can not be done. Do you know, just how rare would this be? The moral of the story for me, it seems to be, is that I put up with increasing operating and boot-up deterioration so long that I lost the ability to do a recovery either before or at the same time that I lost any chance at all to boot up. So by soaking in too many bad vibes about recoveries that you get from such things as user manuals and to a lessor extent from many computer internet sites, I unwisely elected to keep putting off recovery week after week, falsely thinking that I would always be able to do one even with an unbootable machine. And now it turns out that if you wait too long, it can in fact be too late. But having said all of that, it is apparently still theoretically possible to get this computer back into use again. According to the Sytemax tech, even though the old computer can not successfully do a recovery, if it recognizes discs, which I think it does, you can probably bring it back by using a retail Windows OS disc. Now you, BC_Programmer, are the perfect guy to ask about this method, since this is your preferred method. Here are some questions I have: 1. Do I need to completely "wipe the drive" before I use the retail Windows OS disc? 1a. If so, how do I do that; do I need a separate disc to do that? 2. Do I need a separate disc to reformat (or partition?) the drive and if so, what exactly do I need? 3. Is there any other process I need to do, or is there any other disc I need to use, before inserting the retail Windows OS disc? 3. Will the Windows OS disc have most of the drivers I would have if I bought a new computer, or if I were able to recover the original factory settings of the computer in question? 3b. If not, how difficult is it to get the drivers you need? 4. Just to be absolutely clear regarding usage (ownership rights): if I were to buy a Windows OS disc and attempt to use it on the old computer, I would be unable to use it on any other computer, at least insofar as installation of an operating system is concerned? Is that correct? If so, I assume this would be enforced by some kind of licensing key? ps: Just to add a major specific example regarding how out of control this system was and still is right now, when you power it up, one of many wild things going on was and probably still is a never ending check disc routine running as soon as you power up. This is the widest Post i've seen in awhile... Quote 1. Do I need to completely "wipe the drive" before I use the retail Windows OS disc?the best method is to wipe the drive- assuming of course there isn't any data on the drive you want to keep, such as articles that you haven't uploaded and so on. Quote 2. Do I need a separate disc to reformat (or partition?) the drive and if so, what exactly do I need? Aside from the retail windows OS disc, you won't need any other disks. however, if the PC is newer then about three years I'd make sure to go to the manufacturers site and at least download the network card driver, so that you can access the net in the event that the default Install CD doesn't have a generic driver for the card. Quote 3. Is there any other process I need to do, or is there any other disc I need to use, before inserting the retail Windows OS disc? I don't know, it would depend on the age of the PC. if they use SATA to connect their hard disks then you would need a disk for that or else it will blue screen on every boot. We could confirm this if you pass on the manufacturer and model number of the machine (if you already did- sorry but our posts are really long ). For my machine, I was able to simply boot from the XP disk and format the hard drive, and install windows. less then an hour after starting I had a fresh windows install. Quote 3. Will the Windows OS disc have most of the drivers I would have if I bought a new computer, or if I were able to recover the original factory settings of the computer in question?I guess I've already half-answered this depends on the age of the PC. The most important one to ALWAYS have is the network card driver, so that y ou can access the net on the PC and download the proper drivers for your machine. Manufacturers generally allow the drivers to be downloaded for their PCs, and assuming you haven't had any innards changed (such as the video card and so forth) you will be FINE to visit their site to download drivers. Of course, as I mentioned you can give us the manufacturer and model and we can help you find them ) Quote 4. Just to be absolutely clear regarding usage (ownership rights): if I were to buy a Windows OS disc and attempt to use it on the old computer, I would be unable to use it on any other computer, at least insofar as installation of an operating system is concerned? Is that correct? If so, I assume this would be enforced by some kind of licensing key?If you install XP into the old PC, you are prompted to give the CD-KEY which is contained somewhere on the packaging on a sticker,, and really is what you paid for- the license. (thankfully microsoft provides us discs as an added convenience to taking advantage of that license ). After installation, windows will want to be "activated", which means it will connect to a microsoft server; if you later install XP onto another machine (say your new one), the same CD KEY will not work as the other machine has already been activated with it. you CAN, however, use that disc to perform a repair install without worrying about activation- another method would be to copy the file C:\windows\system32\wpa.dbl to a floppy disk or other removable disk, and then instead of activating the machine copy it back to the same location. This will give you the same license you were given by purchasing the PC in the first place, and is not "sidestepping" the protection in any way. Quote ps: Just to add a major specific example regarding how out of control this system was and still is right now, when you power it up, if this is on a light-blue background and says something along the lines of "A disk check has been scheduled" you can usually skip this before it starts. Quote however, if the PC is newer then about three years I'd make sure to go to the manufacturers site and at least download the network card driver, so that you can access the net in the event that the default Install CD doesn't have a generic driver for the card. It's very important that I get this correct; I will soon be on the hunt for this. If I do a successful recovery but have no internet, it will be yet another example of winning a battle but sort of losing the war, especially since my only phone is internet phone! You mean, to make sure I understand, that I go to the manufacturer site and download the network card driver to a disc right now, and then, if after a recovery I have no internet, I need to install that driver from the disc or from the portable hard drive? And that since I am attempting two recoveries, I need to have the network card driver for both of them on a data disc or on a portable HD? For any and all other missing drivers, I can get them from the manufacturer sites later? Am I still correct? Also, and this is very important too, when you use the term "network card driver," is this the same as "nic driver," which is what my isp is warning me about making sure I have in advance in case I don't have it after a recovery?. I'm thinking it is the very same thing, and that "nic" refers to "network interface card," which would be for present purposes the same thing as network card driver. Am I correct? Quote I don't know, it would depend on the age of the PC. if they use SATA to connect their hard disks then you would need a disk for that or else it will blue screen on every boot. We could confirm this if you pass on the manufacturer and model number of the machine (if you already did- sorry but our posts are really long This is the kind of thing that makes me nervous: reference to a disc I've never heard of before. I am thinking you are referring to the old computer recovery via a windows disc and not to the new computer recovery via the system recovery program using the recovery partition, am I correct? If I am correct in interpreting you, then I need to give you the model only of the old computer: Old Computer: Systemax Ascent BA3200 RTSPC I don't know whether the "RTSPC" is needed or not. Quote If you install XP into the old PC, you are prompted to give the CD-KEY which is contained somewhere on the packaging on a sticker,, and really is what you paid for- the license. (thankfully microsoft provides us discs as an added convenience to taking advantage of that license There is still a lot of confusion about this, so please clarify even more than you already have. My brother, who is an electrical engineer, is at least as confused about this as I am. Although he and everyone else seems to agree that manufacturer recovery discs that use recovery partitions are machine-specific, he told me that you can in fact use a retail OS CD disc to install Windows in more than one machine at about the same time. I asked him: what would happen if you tried to install windows with a retail CD and the installation failed to one extent or another, so you wanted to junk the machine and install into a different computer using the CD? Or, what if the install was successful, but there was a hard drive crash a month later, and you wanted to abandon that computer for a different one? He said that for all scenarios such as these, the license key system would not stop you from installing Windows in a separate machine. He said the license key system is to monitor for (and prevent?) more than a very small number of installations with the same disc, I'm thinking maybe the number he has in mind is four or five. Therefore, given the contradiction between what he said and what you have said, would you clarify: are you completely certain that a retail Windows OS disc can be used one and only one time, and in one and only one machine, as far as the installation of the OS is concerned? So that, for example, if a month or two after the install the computer mechanically fails and is abandoned, you still can not use the same OS disc to install Windows in a different computer? Quote you CAN, however, use that disc to perform a repair install without worrying about activation- Can you please explain a little about what this is: I have never even heard of this until now. Quote another method would be to copy the file C:\windows\system32\wpa.dbl to a floppy disk or other removable disk, and then instead of activating the machine copy it back to the same location. This will give you the same license you were given by purchasing the PC in the first place, and is not "sidestepping" the protection in any way. Instead of this, which I'm nervous about being able to do this, can you do the following in order to use a single Windows OS CD on two different computers? 1. Find out what the original Windows OS license key was (the one for the OS which is corrupted and no longer working) and simply copy your license number on a piece of paper. 2. Input this original license key during the installation rather than the license key of the Windows OS CD you are using. In other words, are you given an opportunity during the installation to use a license key other than the license key provided by the retail OS disc itself? ===================================================== I hope you don't mind a few questions on another important subject; I didn't want to put this off until tomorrow because I am shooting for a Friday recovery attempt on the new computer and because I missed three days of posting here due to being bogged down with various recovery preparations using my crippled OS. MORE QUESTIONS: Regarding Programs Post Recovery I'll give you a series of statements that I believe are true, but since I am continually subject to false assumptions, see if my statements are true or false. 1. TRUE OR FALSE: If you have them, you can save installation files onto a portable hard drive or a data disc, and then use them to install a program onto your main drive after a recovery? 2. TRUE OR FALSE: By looking at the C-drive directory, you can see the folders where most of your installed programs lie. In some cases, and this is especially true for smaller programs, you can copy the whole program folder to a portable hard drive or to a data disc, and then install the program simply by copying the folder back over to the C-drive following the recovery. (Actually, I have no idea whether this is true or false, but if I had to bet, I'd say it's false, because by doing this you still have not actually officially installed the program, but as we know, my assumptions are often wrong. Or else it's false because in many or all cases, there will be program components elsewhere, and not found in the folders.) 3. TRUE OR FALSE: Assuming you are doing a manufacturer type recovery using the Recovery Partition, (what I am attempting this Friday or so with the new computer) you will get most or all of the programs that you had the day you turned the computer on for the first time. 4. TRUE OR FALSE: One of the first things you should do after a successful recovery is update Windows to the latest security pack. You should not have to worry about any problem with this upgrading. Specifically, Pac #3 from just about a year ago is safe and trouble free to use. 5. TRUE OR FALSE: Regardless of answers to the above, it's kind of risky to transfer programs from a pre-recovered system to a post-recovered system, because viruses and spyware, that helped to make the recovery mandatory can possibly lurk inside these programs. 6. TRUE OR FALSE: Programs for which you have discs, such as in my case Microsoft Office, can be reinstalled post recovery (using the same license key you have always had). In other words, there is rarely any time limit on your use of purchased software such as Microsoft Office. And, unlike with respect to the Microsoft Windows OS, there is no confusion about whether you can install programs such as Microsoft Office on more than one computer: you definitely can do so. However, if you tried to install it in a large number of computers, 10 or 15 or 25 or some such number of computers, you would be stopped by the license key system? Please explain a little when the answer is somewhere between true or false. Thanks very much. ps FINAL PREPARATIONS FOR RECOVERY SCHEDULE: Monday: Complete Post-Recovery program reinstallation plan and preparations. Also, secure on backup disc all drivers necessary for post-recovery internet access in case they are lost during the recovery. Tuesday: Complete Multi-media backup according to the Backup Protocal Wednesday: Shop for specific hardware up to and including a new PC, so that an actual order can be placed for new hardware in case of catastrophic failure of the recovery process. As time permits, disable a few more processes and uninstall a few more programs Thursday: Attempt to temporarily recover the new computer OS via up to five restarts, and via a System Restore. Friday: Attempt to recover the OS of new computer using the application on the C-drive. If necessary, use the "recovery disc" Next Week: Attempt to recover the OS of old computer SPRING 2009 INVESTIGATION PROJECT REINSTALLATION OF OPERATING SYSTEMS: MYTHS, REALITIES, LITTLE KNOWN FACTS This spring I suspended normal operations due to continual operating system problems, and due to apparently being misled by computer manufacturers and by my computer user manuals and so forth. I launched an investigation into the myths, realities, and little known facts regarding the courruption of and reinstallation of operating systems. MYTH: Operating systems slow down and eventually stop working completely due to viruses and spyware REALITY: It's not just malware by any stretch. They slow down and eventually stop working due to viruses, spyware, and also spontaneous errors caused by usage. The more you use an operating system, the more errors you will have over time, even if there is no damage from viruses and spyware. These errors are of course cumulative, and it seems that the size or impact of new errors (in terms of annoyance and loss of functionality) grows over time as well. MYTH: A good"security suite" with a good antivirus program as the primary component of it is enough to keep your operating system working satisfactorily, so that you will not have to do recoveries (reinstallations) of the operating system. REALITY: That is false; security programs allow enough viruses and spyware to get through that it is inevitable that a heavy internet user will have to reinstall the operating system before the computer is mechanically worn out. Another reason this is a myth is that even viruses and spyware that are detected by the defensive programs can do substantial and permanent damage before they are quarantined or deleted by those programs. Also, the more antivirus and antispyware programs you install on your computer, the more likely it is that conflicts between them will cause major programs and the operating system itself to slow down or even crash completely. Some believe that you should never ever have more than one anti-virus/anti-spyware program installed at any time, although I personally have had some success with as many as four installed at once, with two of those simultaneously providing real time protection (Avira Anti-Vir and Spybot). I've always wondered whether those who think you can only have one anti-malware program installed mean that you have to choose between an anti-virus program and an anti-spyware program, or whether they mean that you are limited to one of each. Based on my experience, you need one of each at an absolute minimum. Whether you can have one of each set to active, real time protection reamins totally unclear to me. Nor is it clear which type you should choose to have set to real time protection assuming you are electing only one. Anti-virus programs used to be considered far more important than anti-spyware programs, but spyware has exploded much more than viruses have in recent years, apparently. As I said, I think you have to have both, and untless it is proven to me that this is really bad practice (instead of another myth) I'm going to use both in the real time protection mode. MYTH: If you avoid low traffic, off the beaten track sites, you will avoid viruses and spyware. REALITY: Perhaps there was some truth to that years and years ago, but viruses and spyware have exploded in recent years and apparently, they can be inserted by sophisticated hackers into almost any web page at any time. It is true that, generally speaking, it will take more time for your computer to be infected if you avoid all off the beaten track, low traffic web sites. But you will be eventually infected even if you avoid those obscure sites. If you are a heavy internet user, then by definition you will not be limiting yourself to the heavy traffic, safer sites. It is true, however, that among the favorite virus and spyware transmission conduits are files obtained by peer to peer programs, particularly torrents. Using torrents is one of the riskiest things you can do. MYTH: Recoveries will not be necessary for computer users who take the appropriate preventive measures. REALITY: That is true only for most light and perhaps to some degree moderate users. Heavy users of the internet, for example, those who visit several dozen sites every day, will inevitably have to do recoveries (reinstallations of Windows) before their computers mechanically wear out. MYTH: You should wait until a technician tells you to recover your operating system. Recoveries should be put off as long as possible. REALITY: This is a very wrong, and very dangerous to believe myth. Your computer can become so corrupted that you can no longer do the recovery, particularly the type of recovery using a recovery partition and an application installed by the manufacturer. MYTH: Manufacturers do everything possible to allow even a heavy user to easily repair his operating system. REALITY: Laugh out loud! They don't, and they used to do more years ago, when almost everyone who bought a computer got a disk with Windows on it at the time of purchase. New, naive, heavy computer users are like cattle being led to slaughter. Recoveries using discs with the Windows operating system on it are less vulnerable to being ruled out by corruption, but computer manufacturers (probably due to some kind of pressure from Microsoft) stopped giving computer buyers discs with the particular Windows operating system that is on the computer when it is sold some years ago. Waht do manufacturers do these days? Some manufacturers issue what are called "recovery discs," but this is one of those vague, confusing terms which can mean different things. A recovery disc could be any of the following: (a) A disc provided by the manufacturer with the Windows operating system on it, but note that this is not a "retail Windows disc". (b) A disc provided by the manufacturer that has the application allowing you to reinstall the operating system by using the recovery partition (which was installed by the factory and has your "original factory settings, including of course the orogianl operating system"). (c) A disc that you burned, probably on instructions from the manufacturer, that has the Windows operating system on it. (d) A disc that you burned, probably on instructions from the manufacturer, that has the application allowing you to reinstall the operating system by using the recovery partition. What if you don't have any of these, or what if you have won't work? If you are completely up the creek with no paddle, you may be able to inexpensively buy from a small, independent computer business a recovery disc that has the operating system on it. You may or may not be able to get such a disc from your manufacturer. If you can get one from your manufacturer, it will probably be more expensive than the same thing would be from an independent computer business. Make sure the independent computer business burns all of the original drivers for your machine onto any recovery disk they are selling to you. When you use any recovery disc that has Windows on it to reinstall, you will enter your existing Windows license key (the one from the damaged operating system that you are going to replace) to validate the reinstallation. When you buy a computer with a preinstalled operating system, you are never supposed to have to spend good money to buy a retail Windows disc. (unless you want a new operating system for that computer). Once you buy an operating system and have a license for it, it is yours to keep. There is no expiration on operating system licenses. So it is a scandal for anyone to be left high and dry. The scandal is due to some combination of false faith in reliability of operating systems, manufacturer laziness or cheapness, and pressure from Microsoft because they figure the less copies of Windows floating around the better. I'm sure that Microsoft will be glad to take your money if out of desperation you buy a new retail operating system disc when you already permanently own your copy of the operating system and you are legally not supposed to have to buy it again! But why do so? Keep in mind that manufactured discs are a little more reliable than ones that you have burned. Also keep in mind that recovery discs that have only the applicaton for the method using a recovery partition are much less reliable than those that have Windows itself on them.. sionce your system may be too corrupted for such a disc to work. What I rhave developed to gage when I should perform a recovery is a point system where every annoying, damaging, and dangerous things that programs, the operating system, and the computer in general can do is assigned a score. Scores for every failure that occurs are logged, and the cumulative score is kept track of. Obiously, you want to assign alot more points to failures that are the most damaging to your productivity You also need to assign the most points to those failures that you know from experience are the ones that are closely associated with eventual total failure of the operating system.. For example, in my system, if the computer fails to boot up in the normal way, 1,800 points are charged for the first instance and 900 points are charged for each additional instance. Another example is that each time a browser crashes, 250 points are charged. Very minor annoyances might be as little as 1-10 points. Once the cumulative score for all program, operating system, and boot up failures reaches a certain maximum allowable amount (between 8,000 and 20,000 points in my system, depending on how many hours of usage) a recovery is supposed to be done immediately, even if on that particular day the operating system and your programs are working satisfactorily. This system is SMART, because the operating system can and will trick you into thinking that whatever problems it has been having are gone for good, when in reality the problems are never gone for good. The problems become worse and worse, more and more bizarre, and more and more frequent. It makes no sense to subject yourself to false hope, to in other words allow yourself to be tricked by your own computer and operating system. Which leads to another myth and reality: MYTH: You should spend a lot of time on anti-malware forums trying to manually remove viruses. REALITY: You should limit your time there. It is ridiculous to do something like 7-8 scans on your system (and then none of them turn up anythin, laugh out loud.) It seems that even security experts need many hours of your and their time to completely remove major viruses, whereas a recovery can be done in less than an hour. Recoveries remove roughly 99% of all viruses and spyware completely, and they correct about 100% of all errors as well The longer you have gone without a fresh start with your operating system, the less likely manual virus removal, even if apparently at first successful, will be anything more than a tremporary fix. MYTH: The little known "recovery console" which allows for a "repair install" of windows can often solve problems, so that a full reinstall is not necessary. REALITY: My information is that repair installs using the recovery console will solve your problems less than half the time. Moreover, using the recovery console is apparently a complicated thing that only trained technicians should do. I think you lose some of your settings and data when you use the recovery console repair install method, but not all of them and it. MYTH: Data on your main hard drive, although not as safe as data on an external hard drive or on a data disk, is somewhat safe, and/ so therefore it has some value. REALITY: For heavy internet users, all data on the main hard drive should be considered worthless, since it is at all times highly vulnerable to being lost due to operating system errors and malware that can at any time shut down the operating system permanently. Arguably, data on the main hard drive should not even be counted as a copy of your data, meaning that you would need, for example, two external hard drives with your data on them to constitute a true backup of your data. If you settle for counting the data on your main hard drive as a true copy of your data, you are still taking a slight risk that you will completely lose your data. You could, for example, plausibly have your operating system on the main hard drive permanently crash due to corruption and your external hard drive mechanically crash at about the same time, which would leave you with nothing. Since the cost of external hard drives expressed as a per gig of storage rate has been dropping like a rock in recent years, you should seriously consider using two portable hard drives as your data first copy and your backup, and not count any data on your main hard drive as having any value to you. I've always wondered why there are computers for sale with very samll hard drives, ones big enough for the operating system, your programs, and not much else. Now I think I know the reason: people who regard having data on the operating system as silly are buying and using those computers. A huge side benefit of having two external hard drives is that once you have them, you will most likely be disciplined enough to avoid putting your latest work on your main hard drive and not backing it up right away, which is a stupid thing to do, but is an easy bad habit to have. If you insist on just one external hard drive, leave it connected to your computer all the time, and use the external for all new work, and then periodically back up what you have put on the external back on to the main hard drive. Note that this is the reverse of what most people think of when they think of backing up data, so this would constitute another myth verus reality. MYTH; You back up from the main hard drive to your backup media. REALITY: The much smarter approach is that you backup from your primary backup media back to the computer hard drive. Here's one that really flipped my brain: MYTH: Viruses on your backup media are worse than viruses on your main hard drive; you need to keep your backed up data as pure as possible. REALITY: Another very important and little known reason for not putting any data at all on your main computer hard drive i (or at least to consider data on your main hard drive as nothing more than a cheap and temporary backup) is that most viruses are unable to do anywhere near as much damage to you overall if they are sitting on an external hard drive or on a data disc as compared with if they are on your main hard drive. This is becuase most dangerous viruses need an operating system in general and the registry in particular to do damage. So if the virus is sitting on a disc that has no operating system, it will generally be unable to do any damage, or at the least it will be capable of only very limited damage. Many understand the concept that viruses generally do not migrate from a main hard drive to an external hard drive or to a data disk (except if they do so via backup). Much less known is that viruses generally can not migrate in the other direction, from an external hard drive or a data disc to a primary hard drive, a fact which if exploited by a heavy computer user may actually be that user's number one defense against operating system corruption from malware. In other words, you can help protect your operating system by not having any data on the hard drive that the operating system is on, by using two backup media for your data only, with nothing on the main hard drive but the operating system and your programs. That system is obviously not fullproof, but will most likely allow you to go longer before you have to reinstall the operating system.Still a wide topic.....^^^Yes, as with all of my articles, it's just as "wide" as necessary to be worthwhile. One of the most important objectives of this project was for me to get out of the rut where I am being nickled and dimed to death with the time spent on countless manual operating system fixes that are only temporary fixes, and with all the workaround tricks that you learn to do. I am sick of being tricked into thinking that I have successfully solved a problem when all I have achieved is a temporary reduction in the level of OS problems and errors. Assuming I have discovered the real truth about the subjects covered, at least I get something ireally valuable n exchange for losing about half of my internet traffic for the next several month: a permanent reduction in the number of hours spent slaving away on operating system problems. There has to be a limit and there will be a limit on all of the hours spent on trying to correct operating system errors and on trying to manually remove viruses and spyware. Always keep in mind, that OS reinstallations take about an hour, they get rid of virtually all errors and malware, and they generally give you roughly 5,000 hours minimum of relatively trouble free operating. Since my previous questions were not answered, (and I am not really upset or disturbed about that by the way) 'll try to answer them myself: Quote You mean, to make sure I understand, that I go to the manufacturer site and download the network card driver to a disc right now, and then, if after a recovery I have no internet, I need to install that driver from the disc or from the portable hard drive? Yes, that's what he meant. I do have the original drivers on disk in the very unlikely event they are needed after the recovery. Quote And that since I am attempting two recoveries, I need to have the network card driver for both of them on a data disc or on a portable HD? For any and all other missing drivers, I can get them from the manufacturer sites later? Am I still correct? Yes, I am pretty sure that is true. Quote There is still a lot of confusion about this, so please clarify even more than you already have. Based on a discussion with a computer store/repair shop tech, and on other information, I believe the truth is as follows: 1. Legally speaking, when you buy a computer that has Windows installed on it, or if you buy a retail Windows disc, you are buying the license to use Windows on one specific computer, and on that one computer only. 2. Apparently however, Microsoft does not have a foolproof way of preventing someone from using the license intended for one computer on a small number of other computers. However, since every computer has at least one operating system license key, in real life there is little motiviation to do this. 3. One good way of removing yourself from being up a creek without a paddle is to buy a recovery disk, that has Windows and all original drivers on it, from a small, well run computer store/repair facility. I assume that large Corporate stores such as Computer City would refuse to help anyone in this way. You can perhaps use such a disc to recover an apparently junk computer, using your original Windows license key to validate the installation. Quote Can you please explain a little about what this is: I have never even heard of this until now. This quote refers to the recovery console. See the previous post (my summary article) for what I have learned about this. Quote Instead of this, which I'm nervous about being able to do this, can you do the following in order to use a single Windows OS CD on two different computers? All of this is apparently true. Quote 1. TRUE OR FALSE: If you have them, you can save installation files onto a portable hard drive or a data disc, and then use them to install a program onto your main drive after a recovery? Most likely, this is true. Quote 2. TRUE OR FALSE: By looking at the C-drive directory, you can see the folders where most of your installed programs lie. In some cases, and this is especially true for smaller programs, you can copy the whole program folder to a portable hard drive or to a data disc, and then install the program simply by copying the folder back over to the C-drive following the recovery. (Actually, I have no idea whether this is true or false, but if I had to bet, I'd say it's false, because by doing this you still have not actually officially installed the program, but as we know, my assumptions are often wrong. Or else it's false because in many or all cases, there will be program components elsewhere, and not found in the folders.) This is likely to be mostly or totally false. However, if you know in advance that you will doing one or more reinstallations of your OS, you will if you are smart take care to hold on to all of your program disks, and also you will make sure that you always save installation files on your hard drive for programs for which you do not have installation discs. I am reasonably certain that you can copy program installation files to a backup media, copy them back to the main hard drive after the OS reinstallation, and then reinstall the program(s) with no problem. Quote 3. TRUE OR FALSE: Assuming you are doing a manufacturer type recovery using the Recovery Partition, (what I am attempting this Friday or so with the new computer) you will get most or all of the programs that you had the day you turned the computer on for the first time. Almost certainly true. Quote 4. TRUE OR FALSE: One of the first things you should do after a successful recovery is update Windows to the latest security pack. You should not have to worry about any problem with this upgrading. Specifically, Pac #3 from just about a year ago is safe and trouble free to use. The first part is true, but Service Pac 3 for XP has been known to cause problems with certain programs. I don't know enough details on this subject to be able to say whether it is wise to pass on Servoce Pack 3 or not. I do know that a substantial number of computer users do not install Service Pack 3. Quote 5. TRUE OR FALSE: Regardless of answers to the above, it's kind of risky to transfer programs from a pre-recovered system to a post-recovered system, because viruses and spyware, that helped to make the recovery mandatory can possibly lurk inside these programs. This is true. Therefore, you should only attempt to carry over the installation files and perhaps the program folders of programs that are definitely valuable to you, that you do not have installation discs for, and that you can not freely download from the internet. Obviously, it would be silly to, even if you could do it, migrate programs such as Windows Media Player and the Firefox browser from your old operating system to your new, reinstalled one. These programs and many others are freely available for download off the internet any day of the week. Quote 6. TRUE OR FALSE: Programs for which you have discs, such as in my case Microsoft Office, can be reinstalled post recovery (using the same license key you have always had). In other words, there is rarely any time limit on your use of purchased software such as Microsoft Office. And, unlike with respect to the Microsoft Windows OS, there is no confusion about whether you can install programs such as Microsoft Office on more than one computer: you definitely can do so. However, if you tried to install it in a large number of computers, 10 or 15 or 25 or some such number of computers, you would be stopped by the license key system? I am reasonably certain this is mostly true, except that I remain in the dark about whether there is a limit on how many computers you can use programs you own, such as Microsoft Office, on. Laugh out loud at that schedule, which was wildly optimistic. I'm always posting unrealistic schedules! The recovery on the newer computer is scheduled for Monday now. It will be Tuesday at the latest.tremaine, please edit your reply #32 to remove the code tags that you accidentally used instead of the quote tags. patio meant wide as in horizontal space, not topic breadth LOL. |
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