Solve : Running old dos database under windows?

1.	Solve : Running old dos database under windows?
Answer» Hi, I use a database called FMS80 (written in 1980). It consists of about 35 programs including definition editor, report writer and has its own language. It all runs fine under windows exept for the following. Under dos I use my sort program to sort AFILE.dat the SORTED OUTPUT file is AFILE.DAT. Under windows the sorted output file is called AFILE.1X. Can anyone tell me how to stop windows from changing my file extensions? Any help greatly appreciated GEOFFWindows creates it's own .dat files and may not allow a user to do so.I can use my rename program to ren AFILE.dat to AFILE.aaa and back again. It works fine. Does windows have a list of allowable file names? If so can you add to it? Regards GEOFFA bit of Googling showed me that you asked about this on April 11th on ST&T and didn't get an answer... Also that you asked about a cash register drawer issue... You should be able to rename a file to have a .dat extension without problems. You are allowed to do that by Windows. Windows does not have a list of allowable file names. It does, however, have certain forbidden characters that are not allowed in filenames. Obviously, Windows will not allow you to create or rename a file with any name at all if a file with that name already exists in that directory. The following are legal and illegal characters in a filename (the space became legal with Windows 95): * Legal: A-Z 0-9 $#&[emailprotected]!()-{}'`_~ and the space * Illegal: \|<>\^=?/[]";,* plus control characters I am confused that you state that this database system was written in 1980, since MS-DOS 1.0 was RELEASED on August 12, 1981. It was in fact based on an already existing OS called QDOS which was in its turn based on CP/M, which only oldsters like me remember these days. So we need to be sure that the app was in fact designed for MS-DOS at all. Could it be meant for QDOS, PC-DOS or CP/M 86? Furthermore, I see that FMS80 was a CP/M database system which people used to run on CP/M machines, eg North Star Horizons and Cromemcos. I do not understand how it could even run on an Microsoft MS-DOS type system in that case, so i guess it must be a rewritten version. I suggest that, in common with a lot of older early DOS programs, that it cannot cope with modern FAT filing systems. FAT12 was the standard until 1987, when FAT16 was introduced. I would suggest, therefore, that you could try creating a FAT12 partition, and booting your system from an MS-DOS floppy. Although MS-DOS version 1.25 boot floppy images are available, (see site mentioned below) MS-DOS 3.30 is the first version that supported 3.5 inch floppies. You can get a boot disk image here with IO.SYS, MSDOS.SYS, COMMAND.COM, FDISK.EXE, FORMAT.COM and SYS.COM, enough to run most DOS apps. http://oldfiles.org.uk/powerload/bootdisk.htm If you hunt around you can find complete DOS & early Windows (eg 3.1) install disk image sets... especially on p2p networks. You might find these discussions interesting, and there may be useful info there... http://www.vintage-computer.com/vcforum/archive/index.php/f-16.html In such a situation, I think I'd download the free office suite, OpenOffice.org, and try importing the records from that old database called FMS80 to the database that's part of OpenOffice.org. Or, maybe buy MS Office 97 (the Pro version, which includes the Access database) on ebay.I don't understand the insistence that they have to be saved as .dat files...why not just work with them as they are ? ?That is the format the old database understands. There is a reason Windows keeps changing the extension, though, if that is really happening.Then the old database must be assimilated...Resistance is futile.Quote from: GEOFF on April 28, 2007, 11:03:44 PM I can use my rename program to ren AFILE.dat to AFILE.aaa and back again. It works fine. Does windows have a list of allowable file names? If so can you add to it? Regards GEOFF Does your DB recognize AFILE.aaa and will it open the file without having to change it back AFILE.dat? Thanks all so much for your input. Contrex - I remember some old things.We used to run FMS under CPM, 2 X 12inch floppy drives. We didnt know anyone else with 2.4 mb of storage. FMS was written by DJR associates who wrote the dos version then disappeared. Any knowledge of them would be great. I have worked away in my little world of 64k memory ignoring technology but now see Mr Gates is finally going to get me. I have looked at other systems like DATAFLEX but I am too old to learn new tricks. FMS runs our small business from cash register to stock control, p&l and balance sheets. It has been working fine for years with WIN98 dos so I think maybe FAT16 is OK. I have 2 icons on my screen. One 'run in dos mode' - every thing works fine. The other is under windows. When FMS sorts a file, it only has 32K memory to work in (don't laugh) so it write a series of files and names them STEMP1.$$$. STEMP2.$$$ etc until the whole file has been read. Then it merges these files ONTO a new file and deletes all STEMP files. I just say 'Sort AFILE' and fms does this by itself so I have no control. In dos mode this works fine. Wnder windows FMS writes the STEMP files then goes to merge them and reports 'Cannot open STEMP1.$$$. It can t because the file is named STEMP1.0X. STEMP1.$$$ was not already there because FMS cleans up temp file after use. Soybean Thanks for the suggestion but there is nothing like writing your own stuff. FMS has a language - Very crude by todays standards. When GST was introdused in AUS it took me about 4 hours to rewrite all our stuff to cope with it. No learning new progs and battling through stuff you dont understand. 2k-dummy system will not open AFILE.AAA . Just showing that under windows my rename command works fine - so why doesnt sort? Does any one have an answer to my problem ?? Geoff, I think the problem is that with a few honorable exceptions, this forum is mainly composed of 12 year old so called "computer wizards", who think that 2000 was a long time ago, let alone 1980. You are OK in DOS mode, you'll just have to stick to that. Well put, Contrex. I hear what you are saying. I guess I am looking for someone who knows the insides of windows. Contrex - you seem to know more than anyone i have talked to. Do you know how this stuff works? Can you point me in the right direction? Regards GEOFF

Answer»

Hi,
I use a database called FMS80 (written in 1980). It consists of about 35 programs including definition editor, report writer and has its own language. It all runs fine under windows exept for the following.
Under dos I use my sort program to sort AFILE.dat the SORTED OUTPUT file is AFILE.DAT. Under windows the sorted output file is called AFILE.1X. Can anyone tell me how to stop windows from changing my file extensions?
Any help greatly appreciated
GEOFFWindows creates it's own .dat files and may not allow a user to do so.I can use my rename program to ren AFILE.dat to AFILE.aaa and back again. It works fine. Does windows have a list of allowable file names? If so can you add to it?
Regards
GEOFFA bit of Googling showed me that you asked about this on April 11th on ST&T and didn't get an answer... Also that you asked about a cash register drawer issue...

You should be able to rename a file to have a .dat extension without problems. You are allowed to do that by Windows.

Windows does not have a list of allowable file names. It does, however, have certain forbidden characters that are not allowed in filenames. Obviously, Windows will not allow you to create or rename a file with any name at all if a file with that name already exists in that directory.

The following are legal and illegal characters in a filename (the space became legal with Windows 95):

* Legal: A-Z 0-9 $#&[emailprotected]!()-{}'`_~ and the space

* Illegal: |<>\^=?/[]";,* plus control characters

I am confused that you state that this database system was written in 1980, since MS-DOS 1.0 was RELEASED on August 12, 1981. It was in fact based on an already existing OS called QDOS which was in its turn based on CP/M, which only oldsters like me remember these days. So we need to be sure that the app was in fact designed for MS-DOS at all. Could it be meant for QDOS, PC-DOS or CP/M 86?

Furthermore, I see that FMS80 was a CP/M database system which people used to run on CP/M machines, eg North Star Horizons and Cromemcos.

I do not understand how it could even run on an Microsoft MS-DOS type system in that case, so i guess it must be a rewritten version. I suggest that, in common with a lot of older early DOS programs, that it cannot cope with modern FAT filing systems. FAT12 was the standard until 1987, when FAT16 was introduced.

I would suggest, therefore, that you could try creating a FAT12 partition, and booting your system from an MS-DOS floppy. Although MS-DOS version 1.25 boot floppy images are available, (see site mentioned below) MS-DOS 3.30 is the first version that supported 3.5 inch floppies. You can get a boot disk image here with IO.SYS, MSDOS.SYS, COMMAND.COM, FDISK.EXE, FORMAT.COM and SYS.COM, enough to run most DOS apps.

http://oldfiles.org.uk/powerload/bootdisk.htm

If you hunt around you can find complete DOS & early Windows (eg 3.1) install disk image sets... especially on p2p networks.

You might find these discussions interesting, and there may be useful info there...

http://www.vintage-computer.com/vcforum/archive/index.php/f-16.html

In such a situation, I think I'd download the free office suite, OpenOffice.org, and try importing the records from that old database called FMS80 to the database that's part of OpenOffice.org. Or, maybe buy MS Office 97 (the Pro version, which includes the Access database) on ebay.I don't understand the insistence that they have to be saved as .dat files...why not just work with them as they are ? ?That is the format the old database understands. There is a reason Windows keeps changing the extension, though, if that is really happening.Then the old database must be assimilated...Resistance is futile.Quote from: GEOFF on April 28, 2007, 11:03:44 PM

I can use my rename program to ren AFILE.dat to AFILE.aaa and back again. It works fine. Does windows have a list of allowable file names? If so can you add to it?
Regards
GEOFF

Does your DB recognize AFILE.aaa and will it open the file without having to change it back AFILE.dat? Thanks all so much for your input.
Contrex - I remember some old things.We used to run FMS under CPM, 2 X 12inch floppy drives. We didnt know anyone else with 2.4 mb of storage.
FMS was written by DJR associates who wrote the dos version then disappeared. Any knowledge of them would be great.
I have worked away in my little world of 64k memory ignoring technology but now see Mr Gates is finally going to get me. I have looked at other systems like DATAFLEX but I am too old to learn new tricks.
FMS runs our small business from cash register to stock control, p&l and balance sheets.
It has been working fine for years with WIN98 dos so I think maybe FAT16 is OK.
I have 2 icons on my screen. One 'run in dos mode' - every thing works fine. The other is under windows.
When FMS sorts a file, it only has 32K memory to work in (don't laugh) so it write a series of files and names them STEMP1.$$$. STEMP2.$$$ etc until the whole file has been read. Then it merges these files ONTO a new file and deletes all STEMP files.
I just say 'Sort AFILE' and fms does this by itself so I have no control.
In dos mode this works fine. Wnder windows FMS writes the STEMP files then goes to merge them and reports 'Cannot open STEMP1.$$$. It can t because the file is named STEMP1.0X. STEMP1.$$$ was not already there because FMS cleans up temp file after use.

Soybean
Thanks for the suggestion but there is nothing like writing your own stuff. FMS has a language - Very crude by todays standards. When GST was introdused in AUS it took me about 4 hours to rewrite all our stuff to cope with it. No learning new progs and battling through stuff you dont understand.

2k-dummy
system will not open AFILE.AAA . Just showing that under windows my rename command works fine - so why doesnt sort?
Does any one have an answer to my problem ??
Geoff, I think the problem is that with a few honorable exceptions, this forum is mainly composed of 12 year old so called "computer wizards", who think that 2000 was a long time ago, let alone 1980.

You are OK in DOS mode, you'll just have to stick to that.
Well put, Contrex. I hear what you are saying. I guess I am looking for someone who knows the insides of windows. Contrex - you seem to know more than anyone i have talked to. Do you know how this stuff works? Can you point me in the right direction?
Regards
GEOFF

Solve : Running old dos database under windows?

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