Solve : toshiba usb 2.0drive ROO?

1.	Solve : toshiba usb 2.0drive ROO?
Answer» my toshiba usb 2.0 ROO plug in disc drive has stopped booting up. All the folders show up as empty but right clicking on device and then properties shows all the data is still on the driveIf i'm not mistaken it's a DVD drive so it doesn't boot up".... What is the EXACT issue you are having and what's on the disk you are trying to access ? ?Patio thanks for the reply, it is a 150gb plug in hard drive and contains music, family photos and generally lots of things that would take up lots of space on my C drive. The label on the back says HDDR160EO1X. When I boot my P.C. up, the drive used to start silently, and the blue light lit up with a steady glow. Now when I switch on the P.C. the plug in drive makes a clicking noise and the blue light flickers then settles to a constant glow.Unfortunately that noise is known as the "clik of death"....the sign of a failing HDD. You may not have much time to grab that data ...if it's there at all.thanks Patio, any advice on how I can retrieve the data will be gratefully receivedWell...there are a couple of options: 1) Take the drive to a data recovery center. At that point you have to ask yourself if it's worth $500-$3000 to do so. Big businesses may do this (and even some small to mid-size businesses may, if they can justify it), as the price for losing, say, customer information can be even higher... 2) Try some home remedies. Home remedies range from bizarre to OMGWTHAYS, but have been known to work circumstantially. However, if you do any of them, you're doing them at your own risk--nobody here is responsible for the end results, even if it makes it no longer feasible to do Option #1. Then again, Option #1 aside, some people see that they have nothing more to lose, so they'll do them anyway. If you are not comfortable doing any of these things, then ignore this entire section! Many of them include, but are not limited to: a) Putting the drive in the FREEZER under the assumption that it keeps the drive cool enough to prevent the platters from expanding into the read/write head. Some have frozen their drives overnight, taken them out, hooked them back up, and were able to get some data off before permanent death. Others have connected their drives to an exposed external enclosure, and ran a USB or eSATA cable out of the freezer into their PCs (or power strip in the case of the power cord for an external enclosure. I personally have done it both ways, and my results have been hit-and-miss--great when it works, though! However, I'd be cautious nonetheless simply from the condensation buildup. I can't confirm whether or not my positive results were simply correlation or that the theory about expanding platters and HEAT is actually true. b) Dropping the hard drive in hopes to loosen the read head or stuck platter. I personally wouldn't do this one simply because dropping any electronic device that's not meant to be dropped can often be a Very Bad Thing. c) Taking the drive apart in a 100% (and I MEAN 100%) dust-free environment and putting the platters in another hard drive encasing. I wouldn't do this one either--too much risk of making the data permanently unrecoverable, even by specialized data recovery centers. Also, who has a 100% dust-free environment in their home?thanks killerb225, a friend sent me a copy of WinHex which I'm running as I reply, it's not looking too promising though, if it fails I'll give it the freezer treatment and keep you posted, i understand that it's all my choice. Quote from: killerb255 on September 02, 2010, 02:25:17 PM a) Putting the drive in the freezer under the assumption that it keeps the drive cool enough to prevent the platters from expanding into the read/write head. I've been rather quiet so far when I've seen this mentioned. But truly, it's utter nonsense. First off, it is more likely to cause condensation as the drive is moved from the freezer to a warm environment, which is NOT something you want to encourage. Additionally, if the drive has failed/is failing due to a physical problem such as a head crash or damaged logic board, no solution like this will suddenly change that. And the "the assumption that it keeps the drive cool enough to prevent the platters from expanding into the read/write head." is just correlation. the FACT is, the read/write head floats above the platters on a cushion of air- they aren't "fixed" in position micrometers above the platter. In fact, the read/write heads themselves are "spring-loaded" to "squeeze" the platter; the cushion of air that results from the platter spinning is what causes them to hover over the platters. It won't matter if the platters are slightly bigger or slightly smaller. However, even the mildest shrinking/enlargement of the drive will cause the drive to go through a recalibration phase as it essentially recomputes where all it's tracks are in correspondence with the power to be delivered to the voice coil actuator that positions the read/write head. Back in the days of Stepper-motor driven read/write heads, this was a common point of "failure"- data written at different temperatures could be difficult or impossible to read at another temperature, simply because of the expansion of the track outside the area the stepper motor could read for said track. This was why a Glass substrate was far more common then a metal one in those days, because glass barely expands at all compared to metal (thus why you can run a jar under a hot faucet to remove a particularly stubborn lid). My point? by freezing the drive (while it's off, I assume) when you turn it on, there will be a delay as the drive performs it's recalibration, and it continues to perform it every minute or so as the drive warms up (they generally do so in longer intervals while at a steady temperature). The net effect of this "fix" is therefore more hard drive activity and the data will be even skewed from it's original position. I have no idea how this solves the problem, but thankfully, the voice coil actuator mechanism can go ANYWHERE on the disk, and the thermal recalibration is pretty much the drive finding out where all the tracks and sectors are for the current temperature. How having the drive do this constantly helps, I haven't a clue. maybe the mechanism involved is no longer working for higher temperatures? Incidentally, modern hard disk drives now use fluid bearings which cannot work below a certain temperature. Freezing the hard disk drive below that temperature will actually prevent the drive from running, not restore its operation. Quote I can't confirm whether or not my positive results were simply correlation or that the theory about expanding platters and heat is actually true. I can, it's correlation. the "expanding platters" thing is nonsense- the platters expand and contract with temperature but the drive takes care of it. and it doesn't effect the actual read/write heads at all because their position relies entirely on the cushion of air- they aren't fixed. Quote b) Dropping the hard drive in hopes to loosen the read head or stuck platter. I personally wouldn't do this one simply because dropping any electronic device that's not meant to be dropped can often be a Very Bad Thing. I'd go one step further and never ever suggest it. Because it's just plain stupid. "My baby is sick" "have you tried dropping her"? is not something you hear from doctors. your standard 3.5" Hard drive is only rated for a few hundred G, which sounds like a lot, but considering dropping a drive from a few inches onto a rigid surface can exhibit nearly 600G's or so, it's not. Also, ironically enough, the only reason a platter might get stuck would be if the lubricant was dried up or the drive bearings weren't working. Say, for example, if you froze a drive using fluid bearings. Then the platters would be stuck. So we've gone from freezing a drive, now because the platters are stuck, we are dropping it. And now, because dropping it has irrepairably caused even more head-platter contact or even damaged the logic board, we will resort to literally transplanting the platters themselves to another drive enclosure. You forgot to note that the "enclosure" needs to be the EXACT same model as the other drive- so if you have a 2TB drive you want to recover, you need to buy another 2TB drive, rip it apart, and transplant the platters from the first drive to the new one. So now you've got a bunch of useless platters from the new drive, which in the case of a 2TB drive would not have been gotten on the cheap. If a person is willing to spend the money on data recovery, that's ALWAYS the best thing to do. Again, home remedies are a last resort for an "I've got nothing more to lose" situation, and like I said, they can make it more difficult for a proper data recovery firm to recover the data. In general, there's no reliable evidence one way or another that 100% confirms or refutes whether or not these home remedies work or if there's simply A LOT of correlation. On paper, at least a) and b) shouldn't work for reasons you've stated (i.e.: for a) fluid bearings in modern drives and just the simple G factor with b))--and c) will only work with an exact model hard drive as the transplant recipient in a dust-free environment. Yes, a 2 TB hard drive is not cheap, but neither is data recovery service--$100-$150 for another 2 TB drive or $1000+ for data recovery? How much is the data worth? If it's customer financials, then the answer is obvious. If it's just a collection of music, movies, and whatnot, then it becomes more iffy--some people do see things like that as an "emergency" in their mental state of panic, but the price tag usually snaps them back into reality. Often the end result is to cut their losses and start over with the faulty drive either a) Sitting on a shelf somewhere collecting dust b) In a landfill c) At a recycling center In any case, it would be nice if there was a way to see the operations inside a suspect drive to confirm or refute this for sure without inserting other factors in the equation (i.e.: dust or condensation). I think the one thing we can agree on is to never let a situation like this happen in the first place (aka: backups). However, too many people do let this happen and suffer the consequences one way or another. I do question the baby analogy, though: how many people (barring those with serious mental problems) get into a situation of "I have nothing more to lose--let's drop the baby to fix the problem" situation? Quote from: killerb255 on September 10, 2010, 09:38:30 AM If a person is willing to spend the money on data recovery, that's ALWAYS the best thing to do. No it's not! The best thing to do would be to buy a new drive and recovery from backups! Quote In general, there's no reliable evidence one way or another that 100% confirms or refutes whether or not these home remedies work or if there's simply A LOT of correlation. Common sense about how these things work should count as evidence. Quote Yes, a 2 TB hard drive is not cheap, but neither is data recovery service--$100-$150 for another 2 TB drive or $1000+ for data recovery? How much is the data worth? That's sort of my point. If somebody is willing to take such a risk with their data by performing a meticulous and painstaking surgery on it's internals, then the data is clearly important enough for them to have paid for professional data recovery. Quote In any case, it would be nice if there was a way to see the operations inside a suspect drive to confirm or refute this for sure without inserting other factors in the equation (i.e.: dust or condensation). Err... it's common sense. take cold metal into a warm room and water condenses on it. You don't need lab experiments to know that water boils when it's hot, not sure why evidence is needed to prove it condenses. Dust is more variable, but if you took a drive apart it would eventually fail because of it (the one I used a year or so ago lasted about three hours). Makes a terrible screeching sound, too. not pleasant. Quote I think the one thing we can agree on is to never let a situation like this happen in the first place (aka: backups). What! Take that back! I wanted to say it first! Quote I do question the baby analogy, though: how many people (barring those with serious mental problems) get into a situation of "I have nothing more to lose--let's drop the baby to fix the problem" situation? More then would be ideal. I just had a extreme case of forum deja vu. I Could swear I had a similar conversation about baby-dropping involving Patio. Seems to be a recurring topic....Yes we did...actually..... Or wait...no we didn't...

Answer»

my toshiba usb 2.0 ROO plug in disc drive has stopped booting up. All the folders show up as empty but right clicking on device and then properties shows all the data is still on the driveIf i'm not mistaken it's a DVD drive so it doesn't
boot up"....

What is the EXACT issue you are having and what's on the disk you are trying to access ? ?Patio thanks for the reply, it is a 150gb plug in hard drive and contains music, family photos and generally lots of things that would take up lots of space on my C drive.
The label on the back says HDDR160EO1X. When I boot my P.C. up, the drive used to start silently, and the blue light lit up with a steady glow. Now when I switch on the P.C. the plug in drive makes a clicking noise and the blue light flickers then settles to a constant glow.Unfortunately that noise is known as the "clik of death"....the sign of a failing HDD.

You may not have much time to grab that data ...if it's there at all.thanks Patio, any advice on how I can retrieve the data will be gratefully receivedWell...there are a couple of options:

1) Take the drive to a data recovery center.

At that point you have to ask yourself if it's worth $500-$3000 to do so. Big businesses may do this (and even some small to mid-size businesses may, if they can justify it), as the price for losing, say, customer information can be even higher...

2) Try some home remedies.

Home remedies range from bizarre to OMGWTHAYS, but have been known to work circumstantially. However, if you do any of them, you're doing them at your own risk--nobody here is responsible for the end results, even if it makes it no longer feasible to do Option #1. Then again, Option #1 aside, some people see that they have nothing more to lose, so they'll do them anyway. If you are not comfortable doing any of these things, then ignore this entire section!

Many of them include, but are not limited to:

a) Putting the drive in the FREEZER under the assumption that it keeps the drive cool enough to prevent the platters from expanding into the read/write head.

Some have frozen their drives overnight, taken them out, hooked them back up, and were able to get some data off before permanent death. Others have connected their drives to an exposed external enclosure, and ran a USB or eSATA cable out of the freezer into their PCs (or power strip in the case of the power cord for an external enclosure.

I personally have done it both ways, and my results have been hit-and-miss--great when it works, though! However, I'd be cautious nonetheless simply from the condensation buildup. I can't confirm whether or not my positive results were simply correlation or that the theory about expanding platters and HEAT is actually true.

b) Dropping the hard drive in hopes to loosen the read head or stuck platter.

I personally wouldn't do this one simply because dropping any electronic device that's not meant to be dropped can often be a Very Bad Thing.

c) Taking the drive apart in a 100% (and I MEAN 100%) dust-free environment and putting the platters in another hard drive encasing.

I wouldn't do this one either--too much risk of making the data permanently unrecoverable, even by specialized data recovery centers. Also, who has a 100% dust-free environment in their home?thanks killerb225, a friend sent me a copy of WinHex which I'm running as I reply, it's not looking too promising though, if it fails I'll give it the freezer treatment and keep you posted, i understand that it's all my choice.
Quote from: killerb255 on September 02, 2010, 02:25:17 PM

a) Putting the drive in the freezer under the assumption that it keeps the drive cool enough to prevent the platters from expanding into the read/write head.

I've been rather quiet so far when I've seen this mentioned.

But truly, it's utter nonsense. First off, it is more likely to cause condensation as the drive is moved from the freezer to a warm environment, which is NOT something you want to encourage.

Additionally, if the drive has failed/is failing due to a physical problem such as a head crash or damaged logic board, no solution like this will suddenly change that.

And the "the assumption that it keeps the drive cool enough to prevent the platters from expanding into the read/write head." is just correlation. the FACT is, the read/write head floats above the platters on a cushion of air- they aren't "fixed" in position micrometers above the platter. In fact, the read/write heads themselves are "spring-loaded" to "squeeze" the platter; the cushion of air that results from the platter spinning is what causes them to hover over the platters. It won't matter if the platters are slightly bigger or slightly smaller.

However, even the mildest shrinking/enlargement of the drive will cause the drive to go through a recalibration phase as it essentially recomputes where all it's tracks are in correspondence with the power to be delivered to the voice coil actuator that positions the read/write head. Back in the days of Stepper-motor driven read/write heads, this was a common point of "failure"- data written at different temperatures could be difficult or impossible to read at another temperature, simply because of the expansion of the track outside the area the stepper motor could read for said track. This was why a Glass substrate was far more common then a metal one in those days, because glass barely expands at all compared to metal (thus why you can run a jar under a hot faucet to remove a particularly stubborn lid). My point? by freezing the drive (while it's off, I assume) when you turn it on, there will be a delay as the drive performs it's recalibration, and it continues to perform it every minute or so as the drive warms up (they generally do so in longer intervals while at a steady temperature). The net effect of this "fix" is therefore more hard drive activity and the data will be even skewed from it's original position. I have no idea how this solves the problem, but thankfully, the voice coil actuator mechanism can go ANYWHERE on the disk, and the thermal recalibration is pretty much the drive finding out where all the tracks and sectors are for the current temperature. How having the drive do this constantly helps, I haven't a clue. maybe the mechanism involved is no longer working for higher temperatures?

Incidentally, modern hard disk drives now use fluid bearings which cannot work below a certain temperature. Freezing the hard disk drive below that temperature will actually prevent the drive from running, not restore its operation.

Quote

I can't confirm whether or not my positive results were simply correlation or that the theory about expanding platters and heat is actually true.

I can, it's correlation. the "expanding platters" thing is nonsense- the platters expand and contract with temperature but the drive takes care of it. and it doesn't effect the actual read/write heads at all because their position relies entirely on the cushion of air- they aren't fixed.

Quote

b) Dropping the hard drive in hopes to loosen the read head or stuck platter.
I personally wouldn't do this one simply because dropping any electronic device that's not meant to be dropped can often be a Very Bad Thing.

I'd go one step further and never ever suggest it. Because it's just plain stupid. "My baby is sick" "have you tried dropping her"? is not something you hear from doctors. your standard 3.5" Hard drive is only rated for a few hundred G, which sounds like a lot, but considering dropping a drive from a few inches onto a rigid surface can exhibit nearly 600G's or so, it's not.

Also, ironically enough, the only reason a platter might get stuck would be if the lubricant was dried up or the drive bearings weren't working. Say, for example, if you froze a drive using fluid bearings. Then the platters would be stuck. So we've gone from freezing a drive, now because the platters are stuck, we are dropping it. And now, because dropping it has irrepairably caused even more head-platter contact or even damaged the logic board, we will resort to literally transplanting the platters themselves to another drive enclosure. You forgot to note that the "enclosure" needs to be the EXACT same model as the other drive- so if you have a 2TB drive you want to recover, you need to buy another 2TB drive, rip it apart, and transplant the platters from the first drive to the new one. So now you've got a bunch of useless platters from the new drive, which in the case of a 2TB drive would not have been gotten on the cheap.

If a person is willing to spend the money on data recovery, that's ALWAYS the best thing to do.

Again, home remedies are a last resort for an "I've got nothing more to lose" situation, and like I said, they can make it more difficult for a proper data recovery firm to recover the data.

In general, there's no reliable evidence one way or another that 100% confirms or refutes whether or not these home remedies work or if there's simply A LOT of correlation. On paper, at least a) and b) shouldn't work for reasons you've stated (i.e.: for a) fluid bearings in modern drives and just the simple G factor with b))--and c) will only work with an exact model hard drive as the transplant recipient in a dust-free environment. Yes, a 2 TB hard drive is not cheap, but neither is data recovery service--$100-$150 for another 2 TB drive or $1000+ for data recovery? How much is the data worth? If it's customer financials, then the answer is obvious. If it's just a collection of music, movies, and whatnot, then it becomes more iffy--some people do see things like that as an "emergency" in their mental state of panic, but the price tag usually snaps them back into reality. Often the end result is to cut their losses and start over with the faulty drive either
a) Sitting on a shelf somewhere collecting dust
b) In a landfill
c) At a recycling center

In any case, it would be nice if there was a way to see the operations inside a suspect drive to confirm or refute this for sure without inserting other factors in the equation (i.e.: dust or condensation).

I think the one thing we can agree on is to never let a situation like this happen in the first place (aka: backups). However, too many people do let this happen and suffer the consequences one way or another.

I do question the baby analogy, though: how many people (barring those with serious mental problems) get into a situation of "I have nothing more to lose--let's drop the baby to fix the problem" situation? Quote from: killerb255 on September 10, 2010, 09:38:30 AM

If a person is willing to spend the money on data recovery, that's ALWAYS the best thing to do.

No it's not! The best thing to do would be to buy a new drive and recovery from backups!

Quote

In general, there's no reliable evidence one way or another that 100% confirms or refutes whether or not these home remedies work or if there's simply A LOT of correlation.

Common sense about how these things work should count as evidence.

Quote

Yes, a 2 TB hard drive is not cheap, but neither is data recovery service--$100-$150 for another 2 TB drive or $1000+ for data recovery? How much is the data worth?

That's sort of my point. If somebody is willing to take such a risk with their data by performing a meticulous and painstaking surgery on it's internals, then the data is clearly important enough for them to have paid for professional data recovery.

Quote

In any case, it would be nice if there was a way to see the operations inside a suspect drive to confirm or refute this for sure without inserting other factors in the equation (i.e.: dust or condensation).

Err... it's common sense. take cold metal into a warm room and water condenses on it. You don't need lab experiments to know that water boils when it's hot, not sure why evidence is needed to prove it condenses. Dust is more variable, but if you took a drive apart it would eventually fail because of it (the one I used a year or so ago lasted about three hours). Makes a terrible screeching sound, too. not pleasant.

Quote

I think the one thing we can agree on is to never let a situation like this happen in the first place (aka: backups).

What! Take that back! I wanted to say it first!

Quote

I do question the baby analogy, though: how many people (barring those with serious mental problems) get into a situation of "I have nothing more to lose--let's drop the baby to fix the problem" situation?

More then would be ideal.

I just had a extreme case of forum deja vu. I Could swear I had a similar conversation about baby-dropping involving Patio. Seems to be a recurring topic....Yes we did...actually.....

Or wait...no we didn't...

Solve : toshiba usb 2.0drive ROO?

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